OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Talk about the ever expanding north side of KC.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by alejandro46 »

I think if ZR would have focused the mix on much higher residential element, the project as a whole would have been much more successful.

However, in the past 5-10 years, there have been numerous other multi-fam complexes built in the area and I'm not really sure the additional demand would be there if they tried a large pivot now. Obviously they are trying to add a hotel and a few apartments, but I'm afraid that especially if this Metro North project actually builds out, that the proverbial apartment/condo train may have left the station. I do wish them the best and hope they can re-invigorate the development.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by flyingember »

The development has had a hotel in the plans for more than a decade and it was never built.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by mistervinix »

horizons82 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:48 pm It also doesn’t help that the city completely undermined this type of development by approving traditional suburban retail just across the highway and single family homes right next door.
You do realize that the "single family homes" were there decades before Zona Rosa was built? But yes, the "shoehorn" aspect of the whole project was odd to begin with.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by GRID »

I remember complaining pretty hard about the location of Zona Rosa. It really was a nice project, but in just a terrible location. It could have worked and worked quite well if it were simply in a better location that was tied tot he surrounding area. Even better, would be to surround Zona Rosa with a development similar to Longview Farms. But to surround it with highways was a fail from the start. Hopefully it survives. It's a decent development for suburban kc.

Or imagine if Zona Rosa and the SKC Cerner campus were part of the same project. Now you have something that works instead of two very expensive but total fail projects from an urban planning viewpoint.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by horizons82 »

mistervinix wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:22 am
horizons82 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:48 pm It also doesn’t help that the city completely undermined this type of development by approving traditional suburban retail just across the highway and single family homes right next door.
You do realize that the "single family homes" were there decades before Zona Rosa was built? But yes, the "shoehorn" aspect of the whole project was odd to begin with.
Yes, thanks. I worded that poorly and shouldn’t have mixed literal and figurative language. I was meaning the larger area, not the literal neighborhood south of ZR.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by flyingember »

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/a ... 51750.html

The former owners of the center just lost big in court and it relates to financial mismanagement
A jury spent a few hours deliberating after a week-long trial before finding that MPI Management LLC, the former owner of the Northland shopping center, owed Salerno $439,470 in damages for lost wages, plus another $500,000 for pain and suffering and $4 million in punitive damages.

MPI Management, which does business as New York-based Olshan Properties, will also have to pay Salerno’s attorneys fees, an amount that U.S. District Court Judge Beth Phillips will determine later.

...

Salerno had managed Zona Rosa since 2004. Her attorney Athena Dickson said she had received a favorable review just weeks before she was fired. Salerno sued for violations of the Missouri Human Rights Act and Msisouri Whistleblower Act.

...

Salerno had said that a corporate treasurer for Olshan Properties had approached her in 2018 about cash flow issues at Zona Rosa and suggested using fees paid to about 250 parking meters at the shopping center to shore up finances. Parking meter fees at Zona Rosa ordinarily would go to local charities, which had been broadly advertised to the public.

Salerno responded that it was “unethical and immoral” to divert parking meter fees and refused to do it, according to her lawsuit.

“I think at the end of the day, the defendants never acknowledged that this Change for Charity program was supposed to go to the community...and continued to justify the reasons they wanted to use that money for their operating expenses,” Dickson said. “The jury was able to determine that was not the right thing to do.”

...

Friday’s verdict was Salerno’s second victory against MPI in court. MPI sued Salerno in Platte County Circuit Court in 2019, accusing her of using company money to buy equipment that she would use for a furniture restoration business she ran with another Zona Rosa employee.

A judge in that case entered a verdict in Salerno’s favor. Salerno’s lawsuit against MPI claimed its allegations against her amounted to a pretext for firing her.

Olshan Properties sold Zona Rosa to Trademark Property Group in 2018.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by DaveKCMO »

Salerno had been working for KCCG to oversee City Market operations, but that doesn't look to be the case right now: http://www.kccommercialrealty.com/about-us/our-team/
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by empires228 »

flyingember wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:39 am The development has had a hotel in the plans for more than a decade and it was never built.
I can’t imagine that there is much market for it considering how many other new hotels have been built up there. Maybe when the new KCI gets going, but not at this exact moment.

A big problem with Zona is that it started out trying to be The Plaza 2.0 and have tenants on par with the CCP and TCP. It didn’t have a true anchor when it opened besides that upscale furniture store that bombed and became Michaels, so Dillard’s was brought in and didn’t keep the store any more upscale than the Independence store for very long. A lot of the upmarket stores the center had like Coldwater Creek, Charming Charlie, and The Sharper Image don’t even exist in 2020. The Dillard’s wing was always mostly vacant from day one. The best it ever got was The Limited and Topsy’s Popcorn. The rest was always a rotating group of empty storefronts and temporary tenants with a
Yoga Studio behind Topsy’s and Yougurtini. I’m sad that the fountain will probably be torn out, not that Zona really turned on their fountains this year anyways... the big one at Legends has been partially broken for years at this point too as has the singular one at TCP.

The two power centers across the interstate look to be doing pretty well. The Shops at Boardwalk is in pretty sad shape. They poached a few tenants like Yankee Candle back from Zona, but it’s not looking good.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

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Re: Zona Rosa maintenance?

Post by empires228 »

trailerkid wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:31 pm
nota wrote:
trailerkid wrote:
2. Would you like for me to show you the many broken parking meters in Downtown Lawrence?
Only if you can show me that they were just installed in a brand new place just months ago. Otherwise, it isn't relevant.

I think the broken parking meter thing could be a sign of other problems that may arise. We shall see.
Yes...Steiner has a very poor track record... :lol:

In retrospect this is funny because Steinert & Associates ended up with a somewhat lousy track record in the end including Zona Rosa itself. I was down there today before a movie at AMC Barrywoods (that was only showing at one JOCO theater an equal distance away) and despite there being no parking, the place was dead. Old Navy, Dicks, Barnes & Noble, Express, and Dillard’s were all devoid of shoppers, yet there was nowhere to park. I don’t mind walking on a nice day like today, but I can’t walk if the only spots available are up behind the old Marshall’s. I noticed that they’ve filed some spots by shuffling Sephora to Phase 1, but man Phase 2 is totally dead outside of Chicos and Visionworks.
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Re: Zona Rosa maintenance?

Post by dnweava »

empires228 wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:18 pm
trailerkid wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:31 pm
nota wrote:
Only if you can show me that they were just installed in a brand new place just months ago. Otherwise, it isn't relevant.

I think the broken parking meter thing could be a sign of other problems that may arise. We shall see.
Yes...Steiner has a very poor track record... :lol:

In retrospect this is funny because Steinert & Associates ended up with a somewhat lousy track record in the end including Zona Rosa itself. I was down there today before a movie at AMC Barrywoods (that was only showing at one JOCO theater an equal distance away) and despite there being no parking, the place was dead. Old Navy, Dicks, Barnes & Noble, Express, and Dillard’s were all devoid of shoppers, yet there was nowhere to park. I don’t mind walking on a nice day like today, but I can’t walk if the only spots available are up behind the old Marshall’s. I noticed that they’ve filed some spots by shuffling Sephora to Phase 1, but man Phase 2 is totally dead outside of Chicos and Visionworks.
There are surface lots and parking garages all over zona rose, if you couldn't find them, you might need to go into that visionworks.
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Re: Zona Rosa maintenance?

Post by empires228 »

dnweava wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:27 am
empires228 wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:18 pm
trailerkid wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:31 pm
Yes...Steiner has a very poor track record... :lol:

In retrospect, this is funny because Steinert & Associates ended up with a somewhat lousy track record in the end including Zona Rosa itself. I was down there today before a movie at AMC Barrywoods (that was only showing at one JOCO theater an equal distance away) and despite there being no parking, the place was dead. Old Navy, Dicks, Barnes & Noble, Express, and Dillard’s were all devoid of shoppers, yet there was nowhere to park. I don’t mind walking on a nice day like today, but I can’t walk if the only spots available are up behind the old Marshall’s. I noticed that they’ve filed some spots by shuffling Sephora to Phase 1, but man Phase 2 is totally dead outside of Chicos and Visionworks.
There are surface lots and parking garages all over zona rose, if you couldn't find them, you might need to go into that visionworks.
EVERYTHING was full. Maybe you need to read my post. The only garage spots available were up behind the food court/vacant Marshalls. Lots of teens go there to loiter and hang out and people who actually want to be there shouldn't have to park at Staples or near the never-developed hotel site east of Dillard's, whose garage was also full despite no one being in the store itself.

Zona Rosa has proven itself to be a failure long before now and it's funny to see people get so salty about it. Go back and read through this entire thread and you'll see that it's debatable to even ever have called it a successful project. All they did to prop it up was poach stores from Boardwalk, Barrywoods, and Metro North with the new to Northland stores like Abercrombie and West Elm bailing after a short stint. Steinert was the "hot company" back then, but looking back they also had projects in Ohio, Virginia, and Wisconsin fizzle out or flat out bomb, some much worse than ZR itself. Dick's doesn't even open their primary entrance into the center anymore (and doesn't bother to even sign that it's closed) except for online order pickup. The Barnes & Noble and Old Navy stores there look about 10 minutes from closing as well. B&N is much more sparse on everything and less maintained than their Oak Park and Plaza stores and Old Navy lacked the new merchandise I've seen at the Merriam, Ward Parkway, and Plaza stores while still having racks of shirts that I bought over a year ago. My friend who works at Dillard's in St. Louis says that Zona is still the third weakest store in the division behind St. Peters and Topeka and that it has underperformed consistently from year three onward. He joked that the Northland must dislike Dillard's because the Metro North store always had weak sales too and Independence does fine despite the store having the weakest demographics of the three. They also thought that downgrading of the perpetually underperforming St. Joe Dillard's to a clearance store would increase sales at Zona Rosa, but the difference has been negligible thus far. Dillard's also regrets not committing to a store down south after that proposed Simon-developed mall failed to get off the ground in Martin City because sales at the two Oak Park stores have declined quite a bit.
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Re: Zona Rosa maintenance?

Post by mistervinix »

Dillard's also regrets not committing to a store down south after that proposed Simon-developed mall failed to get off the ground in Martin City because sales at the two Oak Park stores have declined quite a bit.
Must have missed that Martin City mall proposal. That would really fit right in with a remodeled Jack Stack...
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Re: Zona Rosa maintenance?

Post by w00lyb00ger »

empires228 wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:57 am
dnweava wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:27 am
empires228 wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:18 pm


In retrospect, this is funny because Steinert & Associates ended up with a somewhat lousy track record in the end including Zona Rosa itself. I was down there today before a movie at AMC Barrywoods (that was only showing at one JOCO theater an equal distance away) and despite there being no parking, the place was dead. Old Navy, Dicks, Barnes & Noble, Express, and Dillard’s were all devoid of shoppers, yet there was nowhere to park. I don’t mind walking on a nice day like today, but I can’t walk if the only spots available are up behind the old Marshall’s. I noticed that they’ve filed some spots by shuffling Sephora to Phase 1, but man Phase 2 is totally dead outside of Chicos and Visionworks.
There are surface lots and parking garages all over zona rose, if you couldn't find them, you might need to go into that visionworks.
EVERYTHING was full. Maybe you need to read my post. The only garage spots available were up behind the food court/vacant Marshalls. Lots of teens go there to loiter and hang out and people who actually want to be there shouldn't have to park at Staples or near the never-developed hotel site east of Dillard's, whose garage was also full despite no one being in the store itself.

Zona Rosa has proven itself to be a failure long before now and it's funny to see people get so salty about it. Go back and read through this entire thread and you'll see that it's debatable to even ever have called it a successful project. All they did to prop it up was poach stores from Boardwalk, Barrywoods, and Metro North with the new to Northland stores like Abercrombie and West Elm bailing after a short stint. Steinert was the "hot company" back then, but looking back they also had projects in Ohio, Virginia, and Wisconsin fizzle out or flat out bomb, some much worse than ZR itself. Dick's doesn't even open their primary entrance into the center anymore (and doesn't bother to even sign that it's closed) except for online order pickup. The Barnes & Noble and Old Navy stores there look about 10 minutes from closing as well. B&N is much more sparse on everything and less maintained than their Oak Park and Plaza stores and Old Navy lacked the new merchandise I've seen at the Merriam, Ward Parkway, and Plaza stores while still having racks of shirts that I bought over a year ago. My friend who works at Dillard's in St. Louis says that Zona is still the third weakest store in the division behind St. Peters and Topeka and that it has underperformed consistently from year three onward. He joked that the Northland must dislike Dillard's because the Metro North store always had weak sales too and Independence does fine despite the store having the weakest demographics of the three. They also thought that downgrading of the perpetually underperforming St. Joe Dillard's to a clearance store would increase sales at Zona Rosa, but the difference has been negligible thus far. Dillard's also regrets not committing to a store down south after that proposed Simon-developed mall failed to get off the ground in Martin City because sales at the two Oak Park stores have declined quite a bit.
I live two blocks away and have since before it was even built. I’ve never had any difficulty finding a place to park in any of the garages and I’ve been there countless times.

Yes, it is failing for now but it has zero to do with parking. The way people shop started changing dramatically not long after it was built and it had devastating effects nationwide. Many of the stores and restaurants that closed in Zona Rosa were closing locations all over the country. So that was going on and to compound the problem other shopping centers were being built in close proximity which wound up creating an over saturation of space available which still exists to this day. In fact, it looks to be getting worse because even more space is being constructed in spite of this problem. The fact of the matter is Platte County does not have the population yet to sustain all of these big shopping centers but it seems like none of the developers that continue to throw up more have gotten the memo. I honestly don’t know why the city hasn’t taken any action to stop the madness.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by FangKC »

One would think the City would simply intervene and put a moratorium on retail-oriented building permits around that area for a while until the population increases. There is also a density-per-square-mile problem that contributes to the failure of Northland shopping centers.

Zona Rosa should concentrate on building multi-story apartment buildings on the remaining surface lots and on top of parking garages if they can support them. There also needs to be as much higher density residential placed nearby--especially north along Congress Avenue. And stop with the setbacks!

The City also needs to force developers to stop these self-contained complexes that have streets that don't connect to the surrounding areas, or have very limited access. There's such a lack of a grid up there that it makes it difficult for people to walk anywhere or ride a bike without going unnecessary distances to get back to a certain point when simple street connections would save extra travel.

Image

A person in the apartment building (circled in purple) would have to travel the distance (in red) to get to Zona Rosa. If the streets were simply connected (in yellow), it would reduce travel time and allow better pedestrian/bike movement in the area. That resident would have a much shorter distance to travel (shown in green) if this was done. Instead, we have an absolutely insane development pattern that doesn't allow human movement without a car, and density patterns that don't support retail or infrastructure costs in the future as it ages. The City lets developers continue to design this way when it simply makes things worse.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by GRID »

It really seems like Zona Rosa would be fine if it had more residential and hotels using all that land. With all the new apartment buildings going up in the suburbs, why isn't Zona Rosa taking advantage? The developers are dropping the ball.

It's an island. Even the transit center thing is clear over by walmart, totally inaccessible to Zona Rosa. Fang is right, there needs to be better connections to the surrounding area.

Also, I see on google earth that there are two large lots in the center of the development that now dirt patches, what is going on there?
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by alejandro46 »

GRID wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:49 am It really seems like Zona Rosa would be fine if it had more residential and hotels using all that land. With all the new apartment buildings going up in the suburbs, why isn't Zona Rosa taking advantage? The developers are dropping the ball.

It's an island. Even the transit center thing is clear over by walmart, totally inaccessible to Zona Rosa. Fang is right, there needs to be better connections to the surrounding area.

Also, I see on google earth that there are two large lots in the center of the development that now dirt patches, what is going on there?
Not sure where you're looking, but the owner is doing some redevelopment work on a central park by taking down the central retail in the Phase II and 54th street is opening a outdoor area & pickleball court.

https://fox4kc.com/news/zona-rosa-to-be ... northland/

Agreed with the points above. Need more connectivity to surrounding residential as well as more residential and/or office space within in ZR. Lack of any transit also sucks. Whenever I go there, certain places are always crowded like Smokehouse, Outback, Coldstone does good business, etc. I think the retail and big box ones are suffering hard as part of a larger trend, especially the smaller stores.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by CorneliusFB »

It was a good call to remove that single story retail from phase 2. It opens up the visibility to the department store and creates what could become a nice public space. We visited the ice rink for a birthday party in December. The rink itself could use improvement in the future, but the kids had a blast.

Office is always going to struggle in this corridor, but I hope they continue to add apartments and residential options. They need to continue building a community and get away from the inside-out mall that they started with.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Zona Rosa (tenants & phase II)

Post by im2kull »

The new owners are just as out of touch as the old ones. Nobody's going to Zona Rosa to sit in front of the Dillards on what will inevitably be a scorched lawn with a few newly planted trees. People go to actual parks for that stuff, not retail destinations. It's not rocket science. The death of outdoor malls in four season cities was just as easily foreseeable as the death of businesses in crime riddled locations. If something isn't desirable for a certain reason, then it's simply not desirable for that reason. Either solve the actual problem, or cater to what's there.
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Re: Zona Rosa maintenance?

Post by dnweava »

empires228 wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:57 am
dnweava wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:27 am
empires228 wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:18 pm


In retrospect, this is funny because Steinert & Associates ended up with a somewhat lousy track record in the end including Zona Rosa itself. I was down there today before a movie at AMC Barrywoods (that was only showing at one JOCO theater an equal distance away) and despite there being no parking, the place was dead. Old Navy, Dicks, Barnes & Noble, Express, and Dillard’s were all devoid of shoppers, yet there was nowhere to park. I don’t mind walking on a nice day like today, but I can’t walk if the only spots available are up behind the old Marshall’s. I noticed that they’ve filed some spots by shuffling Sephora to Phase 1, but man Phase 2 is totally dead outside of Chicos and Visionworks.
There are surface lots and parking garages all over zona rose, if you couldn't find them, you might need to go into that visionworks.
EVERYTHING was full. Maybe you need to read my post. The only garage spots available were up behind the food court/vacant Marshalls. Lots of teens go there to loiter and hang out and people who actually want to be there shouldn't have to park at Staples or near the never-developed hotel site east of Dillard's, whose garage was also full despite no one being in the store itself.
The Marshalls' parking lot is in the middle of the damn development. Also so is the improv's garage, which I've never not found a spot in. Heck, 90% of the time I just park on the "street". I go to zona rosa all the time and it feels like you are just making this up to just sh*t on this development.

My biggest problem with Zona Rosa is how it's not connected to the surrounding area at all so it can't naturally grow out and turn into a real neighborhood like how the Plaza was able to. I'd like to see a street connection (either over or under I-29) from Zona to the Walmart area so not all the traffic has to take Barry Rd and so there is a pedestrian connection to the bus station.
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