Golden Plains Technology Park

Talk about the ever expanding north side of KC.
earthling
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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by earthling »

normalthings wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:34 pm
I wonder when we will find out about tenants?
Would think when lease signed. Diode claims operations will start next year so apparently they have fairly solid interest. Will be interesting to see if they spec build each building to the degree of warehouses or wait for commitments. Warehouse type buildings of course cheaper to build than office so might see built well ahead of interest.

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GRID
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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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What is the city getting out of this other than more low density development that will need roads etc? This is taking a massive and pretty high profile piece of land off the future development table.

Such a costly project that will pretty much pay zero taxes. It has to stop.

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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The presence of cloud providers (like AWS, Azure, GCP) means low latency for biz and users when the data center is in same market so it may attract startups and other biz. And when a data center operator has a presence in a market, other depts/divisions could follow because they have a data center there. It also may boost long haul IP transit carrier presence in KC (there are already over a dozen), building up Internet interestate paths into KC. And it also will likely boost local presence of IT service/hardware vendors like Cisco, F5, Dell/EMC/VMware, HP, IBM, Netapp, etc especially if ending up being one of the largest data center complexes in world, which would build up a pretty significant ecosystem beyond the complex itself, perhaps other snowball effects. And Hunt MIdwest also targeting underground data center use.

That land isn't going to generate tax in a long time anyway so worth drawing these players in at no/low cost to city. This is worth incentives but is it this worth this level of a tax break? Maybe as it's the kind of big strategy moves KC needs especially when data center related services will continue to be future backbone for pretty much all biz and KC has all the pieces in place to become a top tier player.

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GRID
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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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^ I get the argument, but it still makes little sense. I mean, they should pay more in taxes than what they are gong to pay. If anything this is a long term drain.

And as usual, any spinoff development that comes to the area because of this development will want and get similar tax breaks.

It's not a KC problem, it's a USA problem. Maybe when commercial development starts paying proper local/state taxes again, we can get our infrastructure out of the 1950's.

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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Omaha and Des Moines have grabbed major data center players because of incentives. KC tried but got almost nowhere w/out incentives. It is what it is. The opportunity for payoff is the various spinoff activity mentioned that does pay taxes.

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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earthling wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:03 am
Omaha and Des Moines have grabbed major data center players because of incentives. KC tried but got almost nowhere w/out incentives. It is what it is. The opportunity for payoff is the various spinoff activity mentioned that does pay taxes.
That's why I said it's a USA problem, not a KC problem. You have to play the game or the long term results are even worse.

I think it's ridiculous that a company like Amazon is able to build whatever they want wherever they want and pay little to no taxes anywhere. This is very profitable company that has done nothing but shut down tax paying brick and mortar businesses.

There should be a minimal tax developers pay regardless of what state or city they locate in.

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by earthling »

^Agree at least some reasonable amount of tax that would still be attractive draw.

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by normalthings »

GRID wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:18 am
earthling wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:03 am
Omaha and Des Moines have grabbed major data center players because of incentives. KC tried but got almost nowhere w/out incentives. It is what it is. The opportunity for payoff is the various spinoff activity mentioned that does pay taxes.
That's why I said it's a USA problem, not a KC problem. You have to play the game or the long term results are even worse.

I think it's ridiculous that a company like Amazon is able to build whatever they want wherever they want and pay little to no taxes anywhere. This is very profitable company that has done nothing but shut down tax paying brick and mortar businesses.

There should be a minimal tax developers pay regardless of what state or city they locate in.
2 X Online sales tax? Buy from Amazon and pay 20% sales tax. Buy local (even at your Walmart) and pay 10%

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GRID
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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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normalthings wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:21 am
GRID wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:18 am
earthling wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:03 am
Omaha and Des Moines have grabbed major data center players because of incentives. KC tried but got almost nowhere w/out incentives. It is what it is. The opportunity for payoff is the various spinoff activity mentioned that does pay taxes.
That's why I said it's a USA problem, not a KC problem. You have to play the game or the long term results are even worse.

I think it's ridiculous that a company like Amazon is able to build whatever they want wherever they want and pay little to no taxes anywhere. This is very profitable company that has done nothing but shut down tax paying brick and mortar businesses.

There should be a minimal tax developers pay regardless of what state or city they locate in.
2 X Online sales tax? Buy from Amazon and pay 20% sales tax. Buy local (even at your Walmart) and pay 10%
Wasn't talking about sales taxes.

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normalthings
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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by normalthings »

GRID wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:41 pm
normalthings wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:21 am
GRID wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:18 am


That's why I said it's a USA problem, not a KC problem. You have to play the game or the long term results are even worse.

I think it's ridiculous that a company like Amazon is able to build whatever they want wherever they want and pay little to no taxes anywhere. This is very profitable company that has done nothing but shut down tax paying brick and mortar businesses.

There should be a minimal tax developers pay regardless of what state or city they locate in.
2 X Online sales tax? Buy from Amazon and pay 20% sales tax. Buy local (even at your Walmart) and pay 10%
Wasn't talking about sales taxes.
That was just my own tax proposal I have been toying with

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GRID
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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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normalthings wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:39 pm
GRID wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:41 pm
normalthings wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:21 am


2 X Online sales tax? Buy from Amazon and pay 20% sales tax. Buy local (even at your Walmart) and pay 10%
Wasn't talking about sales taxes.
That was just my own tax proposal I have been toying with
Oh, I gotcha. Would never fly I suppose but makes some sense.

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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The project does involve a significant property tax abatement, but it is on land that currently generates only about $20,000 in annual property taxes. Over the 37-year life of the plan, the project is expected to generate $1.8 billion in payments in lieu of taxes to schools and other government entities.
So about $48M/yr average. Even if that's bloated 2X it's far better than if a neighborhood built in this location.

https://www.kcur.org/news/2021-04-29/a- ... l-tech-hub

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by flyingember »

If it's bloated 2x, it's not better

A $300k home pays about $3000 per year in taxes, it should be a little more than that.

882 acres. If homes are on 0.2 acre lots that's 4410 homes. For $13 million in property taxes
With two people working and paying the e-tax, average income of $125k per home. That's $5.5 million
Spending 20% of gross income on taxable goods with the city getting 4% (not the real number, didn't care to find it): $4.4 million

We're up to $22.9. So homes would be about half as valuable best case

earthling
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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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I was referring to property tax alone ($24M-$48M DC complex vs $13M homes). If you're including other spinoff effects you have to for DC complex as well. It's harder to measure but the complex should bring other impact in the long run especially if the presence attracts more startups and other biz. As well as boosting presence of other IT hardware/service providers that are engaged with supporting the complex. Something this large typically creates a large ecosystem well beyond itself. Bottom line is that this is unlikely a mistake in terms of concerns for blowing long term tax opportunity. Even if they are overstating the direct numbers.

More importantly, KC needs to find new industries it has a chance to play in and all the pieces are in place to eventually become a top tier player in this one. Would be a big mistake to pass on it because of concerns for direct property taxes generated. Can't think of another industry KC is not a major player yet has realistic opportunity to become a top tier player. We have a developer willing to spec build DC space (among largest complexes in world), KC is in center of US, a decent tech workforce and has most of the Tier 1-3 longhaul Internet providers already with key hubs in KC.

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by dukuboy1 »

I agree, that this project is completely worth it, as it will most likely serve as a catalyst to create job growth, new start ups, that can become string small businesses, to larger corporate players over time. Plus you may look at other established companies coming in wanting to take advantage of not only the physical infrastructure but the workforce human capital as well. Expenses and cost would be better and you could save some money by not having to pay coastal inflated wages. A $150K job for say mid-level seniority would be about 75-80K here. Heck even if you splurged you could go $100K, and that employees purchasing power here in the KC Metro is exponentially better than just about anywhere else in the country, especially when compared to the coasts. I'm excited for this project and what it could mean to the KC Metro over the years

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by earthling »

Amazon AWS should be this complex's #1 target as a tenant. AWS is largest and most robust cloud provider and has E/W coast regions and a Central East in Ohio. KC would be a perfect candidate for a Central West region, though Dallas and Denver also good fits and Dallas could end up with it given so much going on all over TX. But the complex can also target all of these players, including the niche ones. And there are a bunch of managed hosting companies like Rackspace and DigitalOcean they can target, the latter apparently has no central US location.

Startups to mid-sized biz tend to use cloud providers instead of building up own data center. Many corporate data centers will probably maintain an OnPrem presence but some are fully transitioning to cloud providers or at least for backup/DR and/or handling public facing web traffic.

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by langosta »

Why are they building a Walmart sized parking lot

earthling
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Re: Golden Plains Technology Park

Post by earthling »

^Might be extended temporary for construction workers, says nearly 1500 construction/trade jobs over 11 year buildout. Entire complex only expected to have 300 or so employees when completed.

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