Falls at Crackernack Creek update

[mgsports]

http://business-news.thestreet.com/exam ... ck-creek/1 Other Developments to the in the area some include Commercial so maybe Menards.

[flyingember]

There are so many bass pro shops all around the country sitting in mostly emtpy dreams of shopping centers. Bass pro really knows how to milk cities.

what's your source?

[lock+load]

Good article on Bass Pro and Cabellas
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-a ... elas/2906/

[GRID]

There are so many bass pro shops all around the country sitting in mostly emtpy dreams of shopping centers. Bass pro really knows how to milk cities.

what's your source?

my eyes.

[flyingember]

There are so many bass pro shops all around the country sitting in mostly emtpy dreams of shopping centers. Bass pro really knows how to milk cities.

what's your source?

my eyes.

impressive that you make an effort to specifically visit bass pro shops all across the country.

which is unlikely to the point that you're more likely wrongly extrapolating what's at a few stores to be at all 65-70 of them.

[smh]

[GRID]

impressive that you make an effort to specifically visit bass pro shops all across the country.

which is unlikely to the point that you're more likely wrongly extrapolating what's at a few stores to be at all 65-70 of them.

I take it you didn't bother to read the link posted by lock

The two bass pros in KC are prime examples as both have been built with a LOT of city tax money and both are subsidized today because neither development is coming close to paying for the ridiculous tifs that was created to build the stores.

Whatever I guess.

[chingon]

Thankfully neither of the 3 mega outdoors stores in KC are actually in KC. Imagine the decade and a half of lamenting we'd have had to listen to if a basically vacant "Bass Pro development" built mostly on the city's dime was idling at Bannister.

[flyingember]

impressive that you make an effort to specifically visit bass pro shops all across the country.

which is unlikely to the point that you're more likely wrongly extrapolating what's at a few stores to be at all 65-70 of them.

I take it you didn't bother to read the link posted by lock

The two bass pros in KC are prime examples as both have been built with a LOT of city tax money and both are subsidized today because neither development is coming close to paying for the ridiculous tifs that was created to build the stores.

Whatever I guess.

a valid point for KC, but not necessarily for the chain as a whole.

the Branson location is in a huge, successful, development.
The Springfield location wasn't part of a new development
the Columbia location looks to be well developed around it for the land. they didn't tear out next to it so maybe that was always phase 2.
the st. louis location is 80% developed. but satellite doesn't tell us much of if the vacant land is part of that development or is owned by the church nearby

so for the five Missouri locations 20% can be said to be part of poor developments. I'm generally against TIFs for undeveloped land too but that's not a reason to say all bass pros are in poor developments because the two KC ones are.

and I'd argue this is a case where the city bit off too much. why did they approve a development on both sides of I-470 at once is the bigger question. it was the bigger mistake.

[smh]

Branson Landing is underperforming.
Springfield is the HQ.
Don't know about Columbia.

So, for four Missouri locations that are not the flagship, 50-75% can be said to be parts of poor developments.

[GRID]

impressive that you make an effort to specifically visit bass pro shops all across the country.

which is unlikely to the point that you're more likely wrongly extrapolating what's at a few stores to be at all 65-70 of them.

I take it you didn't bother to read the link posted by lock

The two bass pros in KC are prime examples as both have been built with a LOT of city tax money and both are subsidized today because neither development is coming close to paying for the ridiculous tifs that was created to build the stores.

Whatever I guess.

a valid point for KC, but not necessarily for the chain as a whole.

the Branson location is in a huge, successful, development.
The Springfield location wasn't part of a new development
the Columbia location looks to be well developed around it for the land. they didn't tear out next to it so maybe that was always phase 2.
the st. louis location is 80% developed. but satellite doesn't tell us much of if the vacant land is part of that development or is owned by the church nearby

so for the five Missouri locations 20% can be said to be part of poor developments. I'm generally against TIFs for undeveloped land too but that's not a reason to say all bass pros are in poor developments because the two KC ones are.

and I'd argue this is a case where the city bit off too much. why did they approve a development on both sides of I-470 at once is the bigger question. it was the bigger mistake.

Well, there is a reason why the StL and Columbia stores are significantly smaller too. They were not handed 50-70 million by the city and state. The KC area would probably have smaller stores too if the metro area was not the corporate welfare project that it is. The Springfield store is the original and the Branson store went into an established outlet mall in a market that already gets tons of outdoors type tourists.

I'm just saying from what I have seen around the country (I get around), Bass Pro and Cabellas (along with a few others) have learning how to milk cities and states in recent years. It's their more recent, mega stores that are always advertised as destinations (even though KC has three alone).

Now Independence still needs to fill that falls development with hotels and other retail just to pay for the bass pro being there, not to pay for cops or schools...

[shinatoo]

Not to justify anything, but, we are forgetting that the Crackerneck site took well over a year of site work to level to the point that it could be developed. Very hilly. That's what most of the TIF was for.

The economy is coming back. You will see these locations fill up quick.

[brewcrew1000]

Not to justify anything, but, we are forgetting that the Crackerneck site took well over a year of site work to level to the point that it could be developed. Very hilly. That's what most of the TIF was for.

The economy is coming back. You will see these locations fill up quick.

The funny thing is that all these TIF's take away from other projects within its own city or nearby suburbs. If you go over to Independence along I-70 there is a strip mall by the Buffalo Wild Wings, pretty much that entire strip mall is empty. Places like Steinmart, Ultimate Electronics, and some other stuff were in there. Other empty places over in that area include an O Charley's, Macaroni Grill and a couple other out buildings.

Now Blue Springs has this large TIF development with all kinds of crappy clothing stores like Gordmanns, TJ Maxx, Kohls and Ross, wonder how many years before that strip mall development ends up like this Independence one.

[mgsports]

Their lots of places coming to the area or are expanding here Walmart and Sam’s Club are taking a very active role in both developing new locations and repositioning existing stores. T.J. Maxx, Marshall’s, Steinmart, Gordmans, Burlington Coat Factory, Dollar General and Family Dollar are among the discount retailers who are backfilling vacant space, or in some instances driving new construction so if will get filled up at sometime. http://www.lane4group.com/wp-content/up ... rtland.pdf

[GRID]

Not to justify anything, but, we are forgetting that the Crackerneck site took well over a year of site work to level to the point that it could be developed. Very hilly. That's what most of the TIF was for.

The economy is coming back. You will see these locations fill up quick.

Yea, that's why I don't have a huge problem with the Indep development. I almost consider this as needed infill for Indep to be able to compete with Lee's Summit and Blue Springs even though it probably hurt other areas of the city like Noland (which was probably going to fail regardless).

Indep had to do this and the arena. They didn't really have much of a choice or the mall area of Indep would probably be a another metro north by now or within a few years. But that doesn't mean bass pro didn't take advantage.

Now the Adams Dairy and Summit Fair crap? Those projects are just asinine. I have nothing against them if they were built with private money, but both are heavily subsidized and that's messed up.

[brewcrew1000]

Grain Valley has a TIF project at I-70 and i believe it's biggest anchor is going to be a movie theater

[aknowledgeableperson]

Branson Landing is underperforming.

Not saying agree or disagree just asking for the source. Are you talking about the whole center or just Bass Pro?

[Highlander]

impressive that you make an effort to specifically visit bass pro shops all across the country.

which is unlikely to the point that you're more likely wrongly extrapolating what's at a few stores to be at all 65-70 of them.

I take it you didn't bother to read the link posted by lock

The two bass pros in KC are prime examples as both have been built with a LOT of city tax money and both are subsidized today because neither development is coming close to paying for the ridiculous tifs that was created to build the stores.

Whatever I guess.

These kinds of developments are great --- when they are unique. Cabella's was worth a once-in-a-while visit back in the day when it was the only thing like it for hundreds of miles. Now, there are three such stores in the KC metro alone. They are so commonplace now that they do not have much more than an extended local draw. I guess they can survive on that when they receive generous incentives but given the ubiquitousness of the genre, they'll never make anywhere near the projected revenues. The problem with the Bass Pro in Independence is that the company waited until the market was at saturation before it decided to move into the second largest metro in the state it called home; I don't feel too sorry for them.

[GRID]

Catching up on the Indy news (since I still own a home in the area).

Falls to get hotel:

http://www.examiner.net/newsnow/x346786 ... evelopment

[mgsports]

Don't forget Menards and Culvers to.