Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by earthling »

alejandro46 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:05 am
Image
Something like a taller 3435 Main would be great too. If they are purchasing all of these lots, there is plenty of room for several buildings amongst renovations. I presume the U.S. Bank building would be taken down.
I wouldn't mind seeing several of these scattered around Midtown but not within sight of each other, maybe a few blocks apart minimum unless design significantly altered. It's not that bad but can easily appear cookie cutter otherwise.
User avatar
alejandro46
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm
Location: King in the North(Land)

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by alejandro46 »

shinatoo wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:16 am Yeah, why tear down a perfectly good building. Wonder if any floors could be added?
I agree, I hope that it is saved. However, it is low density and 40+ years old, who knows what type of remediation is needed. If Mac is presumably behind it they have done a great job on Red Cross building, so hopefully it can be saved, but I would rather have something more dense on such a high visibility corner. Would be great to buy out Burger King too if somehow you could keep them as a first floor tenant with a drive through.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by normalthings »

alejandro46 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:43 pm
shinatoo wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:16 am Yeah, why tear down a perfectly good building. Wonder if any floors could be added?
I agree, I hope that it is saved. However, it is low density and 40+ years old, who knows what type of remediation is needed. If Mac is presumably behind it they have done a great job on Red Cross building, so hopefully it can be saved, but I would rather have something more dense on such a high visibility corner. Would be great to buy out Burger King too if somehow you could keep them as a first floor tenant with a drive through.
McDonalds has a drive-through just a few blocks away. No need for this block to keep one. A small walk-up food counter would work well in this location. Something like Town Topic would provide a similar service but in a more neighborhood-friendly fashion.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by chaglang »

Like the Housing Authority building, I suspect that a significant part of the US Bank building's value is the parking garage to the west. Even if that that building doesn't get any taller/denser, the garage should soak up some of parking requirements on adjacent parcels and allow those to be denser.

I remember hearing that MAC wasn't totally thrilled with the prefab process on 3421 3435 Main, but their new building on Armour seems to be moving very slowly. Maybe they will give prefab another look.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by normalthings »

chaglang wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:53 pm Like the Housing Authority building, I suspect that a significant part of the US Bank building's value is the parking garage to the west. Even if that that building doesn't get any taller/denser, the garage should soak up some of parking requirements on adjacent parcels and allow those to be denser.

I remember hearing that MAC wasn't totally thrilled with the prefab process on 3421 3435 Main, but their new building on Armour seems to be moving very slowly. Maybe they will give prefab another look.
Looks like ~95 spaces per floor just looking at Google Earth. A similar garage could be constructed over the surface lot to the west of Panchos.
User avatar
Critical_Mass
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Union Hill

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by Critical_Mass »

alejandro46 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:43 pm
shinatoo wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:16 am Yeah, why tear down a perfectly good building. Wonder if any floors could be added?
I agree, I hope that it is saved. However, it is low density and 40+ years old, who knows what type of remediation is needed. If Mac is presumably behind it they have done a great job on Red Cross building, so hopefully it can be saved, but I would rather have something more dense on such a high visibility corner. Would be great to buy out Burger King too if somehow you could keep them as a first floor tenant with a drive through.
The building presents a blank wall to most of Main Street. I will not be sad to see it go.
shinatoo
Ambassador
Posts: 7393
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by shinatoo »

Critical_Mass wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:11 pm
alejandro46 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:43 pm
shinatoo wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:16 am Yeah, why tear down a perfectly good building. Wonder if any floors could be added?
I agree, I hope that it is saved. However, it is low density and 40+ years old, who knows what type of remediation is needed. If Mac is presumably behind it they have done a great job on Red Cross building, so hopefully it can be saved, but I would rather have something more dense on such a high visibility corner. Would be great to buy out Burger King too if somehow you could keep them as a first floor tenant with a drive through.
The building presents a blank wall to most of Main Street. I will not be sad to see it go.
I'm more of the opnion that the most carbon nuetral buildings are the ones that are already built. Thats a higher priority to me than asthetics.
User avatar
Critical_Mass
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Union Hill

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by Critical_Mass »

Good urban form which is conducive to walkability is more than mere aesthetics.
User avatar
Midtownkid
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
Location: Roanoke, KCMO

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by Midtownkid »

I do not care of that building's aesthetics nor its relationship to the Main St. I really hope it is removed, or re-imagined in a way that would make it completely different. No blank wall on Main. More hidden parking. Not going to fight for preservation of this.
User avatar
alejandro46
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm
Location: King in the North(Land)

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by alejandro46 »

normalthings wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:52 pm
alejandro46 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:43 pm
shinatoo wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:16 am Yeah, why tear down a perfectly good building. Wonder if any floors could be added?
I agree, I hope that it is saved. However, it is low density and 40+ years old, who knows what type of remediation is needed. If Mac is presumably behind it they have done a great job on Red Cross building, so hopefully it can be saved, but I would rather have something more dense on such a high visibility corner. Would be great to buy out Burger King too if somehow you could keep them as a first floor tenant with a drive through.
McDonalds has a drive-through just a few blocks away. No need for this block to keep one. A small walk-up food counter would work well in this location. Something like Town Topic would provide a similar service but in a more neighborhood-friendly fashion.
Agreed, but I think it was discussed earlier in this thead they are not about to sell. See what happened at the BK on Armour Blvd. Big time lawsuit and Dev eventually agreed to relocate BK. I think if a developer really wanted it they would sacrifice incorporating a BK drive through to get that location and huge parking lot.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by FangKC »

The approach I would take as developer with BK is to buy them a pad site on Linwood in front of Home Depot next to Taco Bell, and build them the restaurant and sell it to them in exchange for the Main/Armour parcel.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by earthling »

^Good idea. Or include streetfront restaurant space in Main/Armour project and provide free rent to BK for a certain period, though with no drivethru. Your idea has no downtime for BK though and drivethru, which they'd likely want.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by chaglang »

normalthings wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:57 pm Looks like ~95 spaces per floor just looking at Google Earth. A similar garage could be constructed over the surface lot to the west of Panchos.
My preference would be to leave it where it is, out of sight, and not put it on Main. But it's unlikely that MAC will ask me for my opinion.
Midtownkid wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:10 pm I do not care of that building's aesthetics nor its relationship to the Main St. I really hope it is removed, or re-imagined in a way that would make it completely different. No blank wall on Main. More hidden parking. Not going to fight for preservation of this.
Hidden parking seems like a good thing, IMO.

I'm not fighting for the preservation of this, just pointing out that MAC's track record is to renovate buildings like this. There's a pretty high likelihood that the building will remain, but with significant changes to the facade. Activating the street level would then depend on what's behind those precast panels.
shinatoo
Ambassador
Posts: 7393
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by shinatoo »

Critical_Mass wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:11 pm
alejandro46 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:43 pm
shinatoo wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:16 am Yeah, why tear down a perfectly good building. Wonder if any floors could be added?
I agree, I hope that it is saved. However, it is low density and 40+ years old, who knows what type of remediation is needed. If Mac is presumably behind it they have done a great job on Red Cross building, so hopefully it can be saved, but I would rather have something more dense on such a high visibility corner. Would be great to buy out Burger King too if somehow you could keep them as a first floor tenant with a drive through.
The building presents a blank wall to most of Main Street. I will not be sad to see it go.
Are you talking about the retaining wall?

Most of the Main St side could be opened up for restraunt/retail. Pleanty of patio space for outside dining. I could see this building having great interaction with Main St.
User avatar
KCtoBrooklyn
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:01 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

normalthings wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:11 pm The Panchos deal already closed.
What is your source for that? I no longer see the listing on LoopNet, but I also don't see any sort of records with the county or city related to a sale (although those can take some time to show up).

A couple things:

1. The sale of the US Bank building and the Pancho's/connected parcels do not appear to be related.

2. There doesn't seem to be any indication that Mac Properties is involved (unless someone here knows something).

The Zoning Compliance Letter for USB Bank was Spencer Fane LLP. They are based out of KC, but the request came from their STL office. I'm not sure if there is any significance, or maybe that is just the office that handles these types of activities.

The Zoning Compliance Letter for Pancho's was requested by CDS Commercial Due Diligence Services out of Norman, OK. That doesn't necessarily mean the purchaser is out of OK, as they are a national company.

MAC Properties also seems to use a company out of OK for these services, but it is a different one: The Planning and Zoning Resource Company out of OKC (does OK have some sort of niche here?).

I'm not sure how much to read into it, but for the Zoning Compliance Letters the (potential) purchaser of the Pancho's is verifying that it is properly zoned for all the current uses. I don't know whether that indicates they are looking at keeping the current uses or not.

I don't see any indication that the large white brick apartment building on Baltimore is under contract, but it's parking lot is part of the Pancho's parcels. I wonder if there could be any connection there.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by normalthings »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:35 pm
normalthings wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:11 pm The Panchos deal already closed.
Industry
KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:35 pm
I don't see any indication that the large white brick apartment building on Baltimore is under contract, but it's parking lot is part of the Pancho's parcels. I wonder if there could be any connection there.
The large white brick building by Panchos is for sale (iirc the Yorker).
KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:35 pm
2. There doesn't seem to be any indication that Mac Properties is involved (unless someone here knows something).
That was just a guess by another user
User avatar
Chris Stritzel
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2294
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by Chris Stritzel »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:35 pm 2. There doesn't seem to be any indication that Mac Properties is involved (unless someone here knows something).
I made the assumption that it is Mac based on the fact that they have a solid portfolio in this area (the Armour corridor) and have numerous new construction projects planned (Troost/Armour), underway (520 East Armour), or completed (3435 Main). Assembling this much land would make some sense for them since...
1. Would tie all of their properties together from Broadway to Troost.
2. Having a larger involvement on Main Street.
3. Being able to offer apartments directly along the Streetcar route when the extension is built.
4. Offer additional community amenities to residents in other nearby buildings that they own when the time comes.
5. Have a solid company presence on numerous major streets.
6. Continue to reaffirm their commitment to KC.

So while I could be wrong, I wouldn't write off my assumption that the purchases could be made by Mac Properties. Of course, maybe they won't buy all of them if it really is them. From a competition standpoint, what better way to ward off potential competitors along Armour than to own almost everything for roughly 17 Blocks (although more like 8.5 since these are half blocks) in the heart of the city? It would seem like a smart thing to do in my opinion.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by flyingember »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:13 pm I made the assumption that it is Mac based on the fact that they have a solid portfolio in this area
Past performance is not indicative of future results
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7189
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by beautyfromashes »

Why do I get the feeling this thread will get lots of use over the next several years? It’s the new ballpark/P&L thread.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: Midtown Area Apartment Boom

Post by earthling »

^The streetcar expansion will certainly create a lot of activity. And more lower hanging rehab-able fruit in Midtown than Downtown now, attracting broader range of developers. But less likely $500M+ single projects as downtown can attract.
Post Reply