KCRag Forum

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:59 pm Nice. Are they keeping the apartment buildings to the west?

This view is looking NW at the location of the bank drive-thru:



I thought the low-rise buildings to the west are part of the Marriott Residence Inn.
Anyway, they are not part of the project area.

Mundane as hell. Looks like a suburban Aloft hotel put on top of a stack of giant shoe boxes.

Notice how they chose the evening rendering...I'm sure the daytime rendering was too boring to post.

Midtownkid wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:53 am Mundane as hell. Looks like a suburban Aloft hotel put on top of a stack of giant shoe boxes.

Notice how they chose the evening rendering...I'm sure the daytime rendering was too boring to post.

Save the Plaza killed every exciting design.

I agree the design is a touch boning, but if it helps to add more hotel, and some retail to that corner of world great. Plus it in-fills nicely what were parking lots owned by Commerce. Better use of space even if it is a touch boring. Hopefully it will mesh well with everything else along 46th and back up the hill to St. Lukes. A lot of stuff going on in that area with the hospital and new Nursing school. It has spurred some decent development of old beat up houses and vacant land. Would be great if it contiued to creep North into Westport and fill in the spots that need fill

Good to see confidence in KC hotel market considering the core leaned towards overbuilt even before COVID.

earthling wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:05 pm Good to see confidence in KC hotel market considering the core leaned towards overbuilt even before COVID.

With Holiday Inn gone, this is only a net add of 50 rooms.

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:31 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:05 pm Good to see confidence in KC hotel market considering the core leaned towards overbuilt even before COVID.

With Holiday Inn gone, this is only a net add of 50 rooms.

There are a lot of hotels that may never re-open. I kind of wonder if the crown center Sheraton will re-open. That building needs a major overall and rebranding anyway. Sort of a waste of a sizable tall building that used to be higher end. Could be a potential 4 star hotel flag.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:42 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:31 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:05 pm Good to see confidence in KC hotel market considering the core leaned towards overbuilt even before COVID.

With Holiday Inn gone, this is only a net add of 50 rooms.

There are a lot of hotels that may never re-open. I kind of wonder if the crown center Sheraton will re-open. That building needs a major overall and rebranding anyway. Sort of a waste of a sizable tall building that used to be higher end. Could be a potential 4 star hotel flag.

Sheraton is a 4 star flag but that is not a 4 star property anymore.

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:07 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:42 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:31 pm

With Holiday Inn gone, this is only a net add of 50 rooms.

There are a lot of hotels that may never re-open. I kind of wonder if the crown center Sheraton will re-open. That building needs a major overall and rebranding anyway. Sort of a waste of a sizable tall building that used to be higher end. Could be a potential 4 star hotel flag.

Sheraton is a 4 star flag but that is not a 4 star property anymore.

That's what I mean. It's just a matter of time before the tower is downgraded again.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:18 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:07 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:42 pm

There are a lot of hotels that may never re-open. I kind of wonder if the crown center Sheraton will re-open. That building needs a major overall and rebranding anyway. Sort of a waste of a sizable tall building that used to be higher end. Could be a potential 4 star hotel flag.

Sheraton is a 4 star flag but that is not a 4 star property anymore.

That's what I mean. It's just a matter of time before the tower is downgraded again.

I remember seeing Weston and Sheraton listed as 3-star properties. The Loews and now Cascade Hotels may force at least one of the CC Hotels to be upgraded. Weston probably has the best location but the Sheraton could be easier since its already closed.

They're dropping off some lists and a few of them pre-date the Lowes opening

Forbes lists only one hotel on their list nationally, The Raphael
https://www.forbestravelguide.com/award-winners


US News List of 4 stars

Fontaine
21C
Ambassador
Raphael
Phllips
Hilton POResident
Intercontinental
Argosy
Westin Crown Center
Crossroads
Sheraton
Downtown Marriott
Crowne Plaza
Ameristar

https://travel.usnews.com/Hotels/Kansas_City_MO/




AAA rated these hotels their four level rating (five is highest)

Argosy Casino Hotel & Spa (Riverside)
Hilton President Kansas City
Hotel Phillips Kansas City, Curio Collection by Hilton
The Ambassador Kansas City, Autograph Collection
The Fontaine Country Club Plaza Kansas City
The InterContinental Kansas City at the Plaza
The Raphael Hotel, Autograph Collection

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... he%20Plaza

Looks like the tower crane for this will be going up soon.

https://compasskc.kcmo.org/EnerGov_Prod ... b=contacts

New construction permit was filed for the 2 hotels.

https://compasskc.kcmo.org/EnerGov_Prod ... conditions

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:07 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:42 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:31 pm

With Holiday Inn gone, this is only a net add of 50 rooms.

There are a lot of hotels that may never re-open. I kind of wonder if the crown center Sheraton will re-open. That building needs a major overall and rebranding anyway. Sort of a waste of a sizable tall building that used to be higher end. Could be a potential 4 star hotel flag.

Sheraton is a 4 star flag but that is not a 4 star property anymore.

It will be up to Hallmark to renovate them though as they own both buildings. Hallmark was the one who did the cheap renovations on them around 2012 that didn’t go far beyond the lobby. A lot of people who stay at the Sheraton mention that the old restaurant space at the top is kind of really creepy because parts of it are just blatantly not in use in plain sight and that’s where they have the VIP lounge. I know somebody who works at the Sheraton and most of the employees who were kept on are either working at the Westin right now or the Sheraton in Overland Park.

They are under the impression that there isn’t really a huge plan to reopen the Crown Center Sheraton since it was the worst performing of the two. There were actually a lot of comments for roundabout on how they don’t think that Hallmark has much of a plan for Crown Center at the moment in general now that the first floor is down five restaurants, Panera has heavily reduced their hours, most of the third floor will be empty again, the third floor of the old Halls and the American aren’t being used productively, etc.

While a shame for such a large hotel, that Sheraton is the kind of building that would be a nice candidate for highish end 'co-living' conversion. Maybe if not enough conference/convention recovery in a couple years. Could be converted to conventional housing too, but much more effort/cost reconfiguring multiple rooms into units. If travel biz returns full steam, build more hotels directly along streetcar line.

Interesting that this is still happening with all the other hotel problems in KC like the Downtown Hyatt and Sheraton. Is the plaza starting to get a second wind?

Is probably mostly about the funding mechanism behind projects and the conditions they can absorb... as well as lower interest rates to take advantage of. Most every project is modeled financially differently.

earthling wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:15 pm Is probably mostly about the funding mechanism behind projects and the conditions they can absorb... as well as lower interest rates to take advantage of. Most every project is modeled financially differently.

Yeah, it just seems like plaza development is starting to pick up some steam despite the retail portion of the plaza deteriorating drastically.

Maybe it's time to stop trying to preserve the core of the plaza as retail only and start building it up with 4-6 floor apartment buildings on top of the retail space that is there.

Maintain the "bowl" of taller buildings around it but the ground level retail can become more local/neighborhood type retail. The plaza needs to give up on being the luxury regional retail destination it once was and go back to its original roots of having retail mostly for those that live there.

Restaurants can still be a big regional destination though as the plaza still provides an atmosphere that is unmatched in metro KC.

^Agree, have been say it for years. They can still target luxury retail as market conditions improve but they could cut down the retail spaces by 25% or even higher and adapt to broader use. Still be a regional draw while also more of a balanced neighborhood.

earthling wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:37 pm ^Agree, have been say it for years. They can still target luxury retail as market conditions improve but they could cut down the retail spaces by 25% or even higher and adapt to broader use. Still be a regional draw while also more of a balanced neighborhood.

Sounds like a plan. Save the plaza people probably wouldn't agree though.