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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:05 pm
by MidtownCat
flyingember wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:47 pm
rxlexi wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:58 am
The Plaza was so upscale it had a McDonalds for decades. You're looking for something it never was and complaining it's becoming something it's always been.
I don't know that this is fair. The plaza certainly was (is?) a "premier shopping destination". Certainly before the big retail boom out south it was the region's primary upscale shopping center, and into the recent past (80s-00s) it was still the only place to find Gucci, Saks, Burberry, etc. KC metro doesn't even have these stores any more, or really any of the top tier luxe brands (to the best of my admittedly limited knowledge). When Restoration Hardware built a new flagship they did it south.

Even as retail has changed dramatically, which may be the bigger issue, it does seem like with the exception of Nordstrom, Plaza is now closer to par with other regional shopping centers rather than offering a handful of tenants that are a cut above.

We shall see how it continues to evolve. I think Nordstrom and Punch Bowl are solid choices. Made in KC Market is awesome. Would love to see a flagship AMC theater.
That just made your point less valid.

Saks was open 1982-2005
Burberry replaced Saks in the same place ~2005-2018
Restoration Hardware was open 1999-2017?
Gucci is still open

So three of your stores managed to be open outside your range, one is still open and two closed within the past two years.

You're saying the sky was falling over a single year of history at the shopping center. You're making claims without having any evidence to back up your claims.

I don't know luxury brands but I sure do know strip mall brands, and they make up a tiny minority of businesses on the Plaza
What on earth. This literally may be the dumbest post I have read on here.

Let’s see. Just off the top of my head.

Halls
FAO Schwartz
Gucci (no idea what you are even talking about here)
Burberry
Saks
Lacoste
Ralph Lauren
Armani Exchange
Cole Haan
Brooks Brothers
Willams & Sonoma
Pandora (lol)
Restoration Hardware

This has been a mass exodus of premier retailers. For God sakes Oak Mall has more exclusive brands now. And yes, the Country Club Plaza for decades was a premier retail destination in the Midwest. The only thing comparable was Michigan Avenue in Chicago.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:41 am
by flyingember
I was pointing out his timeline is off. He was arguing it was a premier retailer from 80s to 00s and picked some companies that opened stores after that timeline as evidence it stopped having premier retailers. You did too to a degree

Halls: through 2014
FAO Schwartz through 2009-17
Burberry through 2018

Are you trying to tell me that the Plaza is doing so horrible that it can gain Nordstrom and it's not a premier shopping destination? Would they really relocate to a shopping center that's being turned over into a mid tier shopping center or is it more likely you also don't recognize the brands with stores open.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:12 pm
by MidtownCat
flyingember wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:41 am
I was pointing out his timeline is off. He was arguing it was a premier retailer from 80s to 00s and picked some companies that opened stores after that timeline as evidence it stopped having premier retailers. You did too to a degree

Halls: through 2014
FAO Schwartz through 2009-17
Burberry through 2018

Are you trying to tell me that the Plaza is doing so horrible that it can gain Nordstrom and it's not a premier shopping destination? Would they really relocate to a shopping center that's being turned over into a mid tier shopping center or is it more likely you also don't recognize the brands with stores open.
Nordstrom is fine for any nice, but commonplace shopping mall like Oak Park Mall or Town Center off of 119th.

If the new standard we're measuring the Plaza against is an Oak Park Mall caliber of tenants, then great. At one point however, the Country Club Plaza was THE premier retail destination in the city and a regional attraction because of everything listed above that has vanished over the last decade +. That's the point.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:19 pm
by flyingember
MidtownCat wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:12 pm
flyingember wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:41 am
I was pointing out his timeline is off. He was arguing it was a premier retailer from 80s to 00s and picked some companies that opened stores after that timeline as evidence it stopped having premier retailers. You did too to a degree

Halls: through 2014
FAO Schwartz through 2009-17
Burberry through 2018

Are you trying to tell me that the Plaza is doing so horrible that it can gain Nordstrom and it's not a premier shopping destination? Would they really relocate to a shopping center that's being turned over into a mid tier shopping center or is it more likely you also don't recognize the brands with stores open.
Nordstrom is fine for any nice, but commonplace shopping mall like Oak Park Mall or Town Center off of 119th.

If the new standard we're measuring the Plaza against is an Oak Park Mall caliber of tenants, then great. At one point however, the Country Club Plaza was THE premier retail destination in the city and a regional attraction because of everything listed above that has vanished over the last decade +. That's the point.
You are correct about the last decade.

But you were commenting on a reply to a post about changes more than a decade ago and calling it incorrect because their own list wasn't about retailers from their own timeframe. You're validating my argument that the kind of stores you mention were sometimes open much later.

It would be interesting to know when the greatest square footage of high end retailers were. After all, The Plaza had a McDonalds and fabric store until recent years.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:54 pm
by FangKC
No one knows what the retail landscape is going to be in the future. A lot of traditional retailers are going bankrupt, or struggling. The Plaza may have to turn into something else other than premier shops. I hate the idea of the Plaza changing that much, because it did does attract a lot of people to Kansas City from the region.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:33 pm
by longviewmo
flyingember wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:19 pm
MidtownCat wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:12 pm
flyingember wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:41 am
I was pointing out his timeline is off. He was arguing it was a premier retailer from 80s to 00s and picked some companies that opened stores after that timeline as evidence it stopped having premier retailers. You did too to a degree

Halls: through 2014
FAO Schwartz through 2009-17
Burberry through 2018

Are you trying to tell me that the Plaza is doing so horrible that it can gain Nordstrom and it's not a premier shopping destination? Would they really relocate to a shopping center that's being turned over into a mid tier shopping center or is it more likely you also don't recognize the brands with stores open.
Nordstrom is fine for any nice, but commonplace shopping mall like Oak Park Mall or Town Center off of 119th.

If the new standard we're measuring the Plaza against is an Oak Park Mall caliber of tenants, then great. At one point however, the Country Club Plaza was THE premier retail destination in the city and a regional attraction because of everything listed above that has vanished over the last decade +. That's the point.
You are correct about the last decade.

But you were commenting on a reply to a post about changes more than a decade ago and calling it incorrect because their own list wasn't about retailers from their own timeframe. You're validating my argument that the kind of stores you mention were sometimes open much later.

It would be interesting to know when the greatest square footage of high end retailers were. After all, The Plaza had a McDonalds and fabric store until recent years.
Is the pedantry really necessary?

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:39 pm
by beautyfromashes
I really wonder if many retail places die because they just haven’t changed to a new market and customer. I went into Kendra Scott the other day and it was packed with people buying jewelry. Every time I go there it’s full. They have realized that connection to a community and giving back to it by supporting local causes drives postmodern business. I feel like some of these places just want to rack up a bunch it clothes purchased in China or Vietnam, throw a disengaged teenager at the checkout and expect big sales. It takes more now, whether you’re Forever 21 or Gucci.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:08 am
by flyingember
beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:39 pm
I really wonder if many retail places die because they just haven’t changed to a new market and customer. I went into Kendra Scott the other day and it was packed with people buying jewelry. Every time I go there it’s full. They have realized that connection to a community and giving back to it by supporting local causes drives postmodern business. I feel like some of these places just want to rack up a bunch it clothes purchased in China or Vietnam, throw a disengaged teenager at the checkout and expect big sales. It takes more now, whether you’re Forever 21 or Gucci.
I bet most people making the claim the plaza isn't high end doesn't recognizing who is high end. It's why I would like to see more detail on the history of the shopping makeup of the Plaza. I bet it's always been less high end than people think.
longviewmo wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:33 pm
Is the pedantry really necessary?
Against an equally pedantic argument? You must be new here.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:26 pm
by chaglang
I know this is the internet and all, but do we really have to spend pages and pages of posts arguing over conjectures?

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:01 pm
by flyingember
chaglang wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:26 pm
I know this is the internet and all, but do we really have to spend pages and pages of posts arguing over conjectures?
This forum would be dead without pages and pages of posted arguing over congecture

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:29 pm
by chaglang
Well... it's something to consider.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:39 pm
by FangKC
I predict in the next 20 years, 80 percent of Plaza retail will be businesses that sell beverages and food to patrons throwing various tools and weapons at things, or beating objects with hammers and bats to relieve stress. All other retail will be serviced by drone deliveries to barely ambulatory humans.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:12 pm
by missingkc
Chaglang, I suggested once - several years ago - that the forum soule be more useful if it were divided into two parts: 1) news and 2) opinion. I'd still prefer it if it were like that.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:34 pm
by mgsports
Punch Social coming soon.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:30 pm
by FangKC
Photo slideshow included.

Innovative eat-drink-play concept reveals forthcoming Plaza location
An eat-drink-play concept will take over a key spot on Kansas City's Country Club Plaza late next year.

Punch Bowl Social, which bills itself as an "experiential lifestyle brand," will open at 612 W 47th Ave. in the historic Jack Henry Building. The three-story, 61,000-square-foot building was sold last year for $21.1 million, according to a Colliers International report.
...
https://tinyurl.com/y5bhme2e

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:49 pm
by Highlander
FangKC wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:30 pm
Photo slideshow included.

Innovative eat-drink-play concept reveals forthcoming Plaza location
An eat-drink-play concept will take over a key spot on Kansas City's Country Club Plaza late next year.

Punch Bowl Social, which bills itself as an "experiential lifestyle brand," will open at 612 W 47th Ave. in the historic Jack Henry Building. The three-story, 61,000-square-foot building was sold last year for $21.1 million, according to a Colliers International report.
...
https://tinyurl.com/y5bhme2e
Is the Jack Henry Building technically part of the Plaza and owned by the same entity? Seems like a much better spot for this would have been the old theater area in the building shared by Urban Outfitters and Brio Tuscan. That area is just better integrated into the Plaza proper and the new concept would infuse some needed life to that block.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:56 pm
by FangKC
The Jack Henry building was a separately-owned building. It isn't part of most of the Plaza retail, a 50-50 joint venture of Taubman Centers and The Macerich Company that purchased it from Highwoods.

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:45 pm
by Steve52
Well the kidults must have gotten bored and tired of this one quickly. Or maxed out the credit cards to quickly.

Punch Bowl Social closes its $2.5 million location in Fort Worth, just 10 weeks after opening

https://www.dallasnews.com/food/restaur ... r-opening/