Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[earthling]

^ +1

[earthling]

Theatres are dying. Don’t understand the hype to have one.

Everything that dies is reborn.

^In case of things impacted by internet (streaming video impacting movie theaters of course), pretty clear the longer term path is to end up somewhere between a niche to smaller scale as what happened to CD music stores (vinyl stores still a surviving niche) and bookstores (B&N downsizing, indie bookstores adapting to coffee shop hangouts that happen to sell books).

Plaza can adapt fine w/out a theater (has bigger issues) but if it can head more towards a neighborhood mix over time, could see an indie art house screen make it on Plaza, with maybe a mix of 'thoughtful' first run Hollywood films that appeal to say 35+. Let downtown have the mass appeal movies, focus Union Station mega screen for blockbusters intended for big screen, soon just a free streetcar ride away for those around Plaza and on way.

[WoodDraw]

As a nearby resident I would like to see more neighborhood type amenities. Also a fan of closing a street for a block for outdoor dining and what not.

I wonder how much nimby will just ruin any changes to the plaza.

[FangKC]

Movie theaters do benefit nearby restaurants.

One of the primary reasons there have been unsupervised young people on the Plaza is simply that there are no theaters in huge swaths of KCMO south of the river -- or any sort of entertainment. A good portion of movies are directly marketed to young people, so of course, they were going to come to the Plaza theater.

There need to be places for young people to go at night that isn't the Boys and Girls Club of Kansas City.

[beautyfromashes]

^In case of things impacted by internet (streaming video impacting movie theaters of course), pretty clear the longer term path is to end up somewhere between a niche to smaller scale as what happened to CD music stores (vinyl stores still a surviving niche) and bookstores (B&N downsizing, indie bookstores adapting to coffee shop hangouts that happen to sell books).

It's a non-comparison. Listening to music via itunes is relatively no different than listening to it via cd or vinyl. Totally not the same with watching a movie at your house vs. in the theater.

[mgsports]

Big Lots,Five Below,Ross and so on.

[FangKC]

It's too bad the old Plaza Theater (where Repurpose is now) isn't available for a New Theatre type venue. That church that is going to be demolished could probably be repurposed for something like that.

[earthling]

^In case of things impacted by internet (streaming video impacting movie theaters of course), pretty clear the longer term path is to end up somewhere between a niche to smaller scale as what happened to CD music stores (vinyl stores still a surviving niche) and bookstores (B&N downsizing, indie bookstores adapting to coffee shop hangouts that happen to sell books).

It's a non-comparison. Listening to music via itunes is relatively no different than listening to it via cd or vinyl. Totally not the same with watching a movie at your house vs. in the theater.

Even so, ticket sales count peaked nearly 20 years ago and has been declining since even though population increasing, but yeah not entirely due to Internet. Some of it was due to many thinking "will wait for it to come on DVD", then later even more "will wait for it to come to streaming" (our reason for not going as often). The window from first run to video release keeps shrinking, favoring streaming. Pandemic forced experimenting streaming first run movies that may partially stick and 60" TVs and larger format projectors start at about $400, with deals for much less. Many say they prefer streaming at home rather than deal with sticky seats, overpriced popcorn and noisy theater crowds.

The youngest generation may decide to what degree megaplexes survive, of many who prefer phone/tablet video over TV and are addicted to meta life over Internet. Will take a while for VR to mature but probably eventually. Would think the industry will be reshaped and more streamlined and movie going becomes a less occasional specialty experience, not as regular as it used to be. We'll see after pandemic dust settles but the next internet-charged generation might shape it further.

[flyingember]

^In case of things impacted by internet (streaming video impacting movie theaters of course), pretty clear the longer term path is to end up somewhere between a niche to smaller scale as what happened to CD music stores (vinyl stores still a surviving niche) and bookstores (B&N downsizing, indie bookstores adapting to coffee shop hangouts that happen to sell books).

It's a non-comparison. Listening to music via itunes is relatively no different than listening to it via cd or vinyl. Totally not the same with watching a movie at your house vs. in the theater.

Even so, ticket sales count peaked nearly 20 years ago and has been declining since even though population increasing, but yeah not entirely due to Internet. Some of it was due to many thinking "will wait for it to come on DVD", then even more "will wait for it to come to streaming" (our reason for not going as often). The window from first run to video release keeps shrinking, favoring streaming. Pandemic forced experimenting streaming first run movies that may partially stick and 60" TVs and larger format projectors start at about $400, with deals for much less. Many say they prefer streaming at home rather than deal with sticky seats, overpriced popcorn and noisy theater crowds.

The youngest generation may decide to what degree megaplexes survive, of many who prefer phone/tablet video over TV and are addicted to meta life over Internet. Would think the industry will be reshaped and more streamlined and movie going becomes a less occasional specialty experience, not as regular as it used to be. We'll see after pandemic dust settles but the next internet-charged generation might shape it further.

It's not the youngest generation that will decide but their parents. Right now a kid who hits their prime movie going age of 7-9, their parents are 30-40.
That's the millennials.

The age that first went to the movies 20-30 years ago.

Having kids in that general age range I can tell you it's far better not taking little kids to the movies.

[dukuboy1]

Having an 8yr old and 4 yr old being 48 myself, it is easier to watch movies and such at home, cheaper as well. But there is something to be said about making watching a movie in the theater an event of sorts. Even for the hassles and perhaps kids not being good I like to get them out into the world and socializing them as much as possible. Sure you can "sedate" them with iPads and Disney+ and never leave the home, which in IMO can contribute to anti social behavior and anxiety down the road. Not saying it is the case all the time and going to the movies is a cure all or anything like that. But getting your kids out into the world beyond your home is something we as parents should do whenever we can and it is feasible. Can't expect them to function in a world if they have never been exposed to it

PS- I'm not some strict technology parent either. I let them enjoy their devices, albeit with some daily limits. I love playing video games and have since Atari. Can't be a hypocrite and say get off the iPad when dad's playing PS4..LOL

[earthling]

Back to Plaza theaters, it doesn't really need a multiplex but a couple screens as art house and/or films that attract say 35+ might have longer staying power, maybe a better fit anyway.

[moderne]

Thats what the Plaza had back in the seventies. There was the Plaza Theater which at some point in the period had the upper part with balcony converted into a second screen, the Embassy which was an art house under the 5 and dime on Nichols Rd and then in Seville Square which was 3 or 4 very small theaters. It seems that the discussion of what the Plaza needs is what it used to have in the seventies and early eighties. There was a grocer, drugstore, dime store, even a pet bird store. When there was a Sears, that could be analogous to a modern day Target. There was also high end retailers, mostly local that no longer exist. But it served the surrounding neighborhood and at the same time was a regional draw. Even in 1988 when I lived on 46th Terrace(where there is a lonely wall fountain sitting above the hill, the building is gone) there was a grocer and drugstore to walk to.
All this was when it was owned by Nichols Co, so I do not think single ownership is the problem. More like absentee out of towner ownership.

[normalthings]

IIRC, the creek renovation was eventually supposed to be something San Antonio Riverwalk Esque

That's what I was hoping for. Forgive me because I was just a little kid during that whole transformation and I recall the riverwalk was what it was sold as then the whole report of raw sewage came out and it *appears* like they just said fuck it and Brush Creek has been nothing but what drivers occasionally crash into.

Before



https://kchistory.org/image/brush-creek ... fset%5D=12

After

[shinatoo]

IIRC, the creek renovation was eventually supposed to be something San Antonio Riverwalk Esque

That's what I was hoping for. Forgive me because I was just a little kid during that whole transformation and I recall the riverwalk was what it was sold as then the whole report of raw sewage came out and it *appears* like they just said fuck it and Brush Creek has been nothing but what drivers occasionally crash into.

Before



https://kchistory.org/image/brush-creek ... fset%5D=12

After

What a horrible disaster that is. Should have just left it. &

[GRID]

It looks like google earth has been updated to 2021 for the KC area, so I was looking around and it really hits how large the parking structure is where the old theater was. I don’t think that garage has ever been fully utilized even when the theater was at its peak, so there is no way a Nordstrom’s would need that much of it.

This would be a perfect site for a high density apartment project to go on top of the Nordstrom’s, but I honestly don’t think that will ever happen and I’m not really even sure it should happen. Even if built, I doubt it last five years before it’s closed.

However, a 7-12 story building there with some sort of ground floor retail would really anchor the west end of the retail portion of the plaza. Imagine 10 floors of apartments with balconies there and the views of the plaza it would have. The parking is already there, and that's the major thing that makes building anything urban in KC hard to do.

Also somebody mentioned closing some streets. Why not close Nichols Rd from Jefferson to Wyandotte. Or at the very least give it a major road diet and give it some major pedestrian/bicycle improvements some how making a good connection to the streetcar station for pedestrians and the trolley track trail for bikes.

The plaza needs some modern urban planning improvements and now it has a great place to build something that would help do that. Nordstrom’s should just die in its current form. No way that lot stays empty.

[normalthings]

I know someone who asked them about partnering on such a project. It was a no

[GRID]

What a horrible disaster that is. Should have just left it. &

I grew up riding my bike down that concrete ditch. It was fun as a kid, but looking back, it's pretty insane that such a ugly ditch existed in the heart of the plaza.

But what's more insane is that after such a beautiful recreational enhancement to the area, there is almost never anybody down there on the waterfront trails and sidewalks. When I lived in KC, I biked it all the time and was almost always alone. That has not changed as the last few times I have been to KC, I have seen barely anybody there.

There is no reason that entire corridor from KS to Troost to be so void of people in one of the densest parts of the city. It's things like this that really confuse me on KC especially now that I live on the east coast where urban recreation is just so much more popular.

Oh and they have issues with combined sewer systems here too. I know people in KC would make fun of "flush creek" at one time.

[GRID]

I know someone who asked them about partnering on such a project. It was a no

That's really too bad. My guess is they entire city would fight such a dramatic change to the plaza. But the plaza needs a dramatic change. For some reason, it's still trying to be a 1950's car oriented shopping center instead of evolving into modern urban neighborhood. It's one of the few places in the entire country, especially outside the coasts, that could potentially become a true urban district with pedestrian only corridors etc.

[flyingember]

Back to Plaza theaters, it doesn't really need a multiplex but a couple screens as art house and/or films that attract say 35+ might have longer staying power, maybe a better fit anyway.

That they don’t exist today should tell you how well they do.

[shinatoo]

I've ridden that trail all the way out to Leads, I'm never the only one out there. Always multiple people on the brush creek trail. I know because I'm always freaked out someone is going to swerve and I'm going in. Or worse, I'm going to swerve someone in.