Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by DaveKCMO »

AJoD wrote: I suppose you'd need to convince Highwoods that the areas could feed off each other rather than compete.
exactly. they're perfectly counter-programmed! why spend the money on a hopped up bus when you could just make the walk a little more pleasant (or obvious). in this regard, st. luke's is an awful neighbor.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by Jess »

ignatius wrote: I live between Plaza/Westport and spend much more money/time in Westport and over on 50th/Main.  I actually spend more time in W39th and downtown area than the Plaza.  If Highwoods catered to residents, they'd get our business. 
Same, although I'm closer to the Plaza than Westport, but Westport is a bit more "me."  I'm not a high-end shopping/entertainment girl at all.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by AJoD »

DaveKCMO wrote: exactly. they're perfectly counter-programmed! why spend the money on a hopped up bus when you could just make the walk a little more pleasant (or obvious). in this regard, st. luke's is an awful neighbor.
I've wondered about the best way to make this walk.  I don't ever need to make this walk, but my sister is shortly moving out of my basement and into an apartment at 39th and, maybe, Central?  And she's taken a job at 46th and Madison or so.  Is there anyway to avoid a huge hill?  She's not much into walking, and I don't know a comfortable and appealing route.

I'd love to see it easily, walkably connected, but if I have to choose (and its not a walking town) I'd take better connectivity over better walkability.  And people seem to find trolleys way more palatable than buses.  I could see it working.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by Jess »

Some hills are worse than others, but I've found no way to avoid them entirely. 

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by DaveKCMO »

there is not a single route that:

- is direct
- has consistent sidewalks on both sides of the street in good condition with decent streetlights
- gives any indication that either neighborhood is nearby

it doesn't help that you can't see either location from the street, which is why it's so important to improve the connectivity. that being said, we usually walk along broadway; it seems flattest and the construction along there is nearly complete.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by Jess »

I think Broadway is probably overall the flattest route.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by FangKC »

The City should identify a route with wayfinder signs and make it friendly to pedestrians.  J.C. Nichols Parkway might be the best route, but there should also be one street through the residential/St. Luke's neighborhood.  Perhaps Wornall to Pennsylvania.
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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by Stockton »

AJoD wrote: No doubt...they ought to run a free trolly in nice weather down Nichols, say from Nichols and Pennsylvania on the Plaza to Westport and Pennsylvania.

How much could that cost?  I suppose you'd need to convince Highwoods that the areas could feed off each other rather than compete.
I don't know how the streets interconnect between the Plaza and Westport, but might it be worth it to create a direct route from the center of each? Wornall, Pennsylvania?

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by WorldTraveler »

Mi Cocina is now/will be closed. There should be an article in the Biz Journal but I do not have time to find it right now.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by NDTeve »

Hadn't heard that...interesting &
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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Also, can't locate the article in the Star but the problems with that place predated P&L.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by KCLover »

Someone on here mentioned at one time they were running drugs out of that place or something rather.... Who knows.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by KCMax »

From Joyce Smith's Star column:

Is the Ruth’s Chris Steak House on the Country Club Plaza closing?

“Ruth’s Chris Steak House is not closing, despite the rumors. We are looking forward to serving our sizzling steaks for many years to come,” said Lanette Jarvis, director of public relations for the company, which is based in the Orlando area. “We love the Plaza. The Plaza has been good to us.”

The location is 700 W. 47th St.
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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by midtown guy »

My fear is that P&L will have a great affect on some more "fringe" areas like Martini Corner, and areas like the Cashew/Patty O' Quigleys in the crossroads. 

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by ignatius »

Martini Corner has been slammin and jammin most every weekend.  That crowd would probably not be as interested in the mass appeal that P&L targets. 

Cashew/O'Quigleys may be impacted as they also target the mass appeal crowd.

Westport has probably lost some but I'm glad about that as Westport is much more appealing after 11pm methinks than when it would get too obnoxious with large crowds.  Latenite Westport patrons can behave like locusts.  Too many too close together after a certain gestation period and they swarm into obnoxiousness.  Now Westport feels like a comfortable neighborhood place than a metro party zone.

Plaza sure seems to be OK.  I was in P&L last Saturday afternoon then on the Plaza and Plaza had its normal crowds, far far more than P&L.  And Plaza also has more people on the streets at night even after the retail closes.  I'm guessing the impact will be minor.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by KC-wildcat »

ignatius wrote:
Plaza sure seems to be OK.  I was in P&L last Saturday afternoon then on the Plaza and Plaza had its normal crowds, far far more than P&L.  And Plaza also has more people on the streets at night even after the retail closes.  I'm guessing the impact will be minor.
In terms of afternoon retail, the Plaza will always be king.  At least it will be for a long time to come.  However, when it comes to night life, the Plaza is getting killed by P&L.  I'm not sure what bars you've been to lately, but I lived on the Plaza for the last year before P&L opened and saw the 4 major plaza bars (Kona, ODowds, GranF, TomFs) slammed every single weekend.  Today, in the heart of spring, with great weather, go down to the plaza on a friday or saturday night and tell me what the crowd is like at Faloon or O'Dowds.  They are most definately suffering at the behest of P&L. 

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by KCPowercat »

The plaza was never meant to be a late night bar district...a few bars prospered due to no other options around town.  While I kind of feel bad for my old stomping grounds of Falloon, et. al., they cashed in due to no competition...and after the newness wears off, I think the great ones will still survive.

But overall, the Plaza has turned into a high end retail area...a few neighborhood bars will survive but it's not an after-hours entertainment district...why does this turn people off to the P&L?  P&L is that entertainment district this city has desired/wanted/needed for decades.
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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by WoodDraw »

KCPowercat wrote: The plaza was never meant to be a late night bar district...a few bars prospered due to no other options around town.  While I kind of feel bad for my old stomping grounds of Falloon, et. al., they cashed in due to no competition...and after the newness wears off, I think the great ones will still survive.

But overall, the Plaza has turned into a high end retail area...a few neighborhood bars will survive but it's not an after-hours entertainment district...why does this turn people off to the P&L?  P&L is that entertainment district this city has desired/wanted/needed for decades.
That seems like such a lame excuse to me.  The plaza was never meant to be anything other than a suburban mall.  Over the years, it has organically grown to be something much different, including upscale stores, restaurants, and late night bars.  Is that a bad thing?  Isn't that we want in an urban core?

We can try to centrally plan our city to tell people where the entertainment district should be, where the mall should be, and where the nice restaurants should be, but it'll be at the expense of great, historical areas of our city.  That doesn't mean I'm against the P&L district.  But, I see nothing wrong with seeing whether our heavily subsidized tourist district is doing little more than poaching business away from other parts of the city.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by KCTigerFan »

Name another city in which the entertainment and nightlife district is four miles from the central core.  The Plaza was designed to be a retail District. 
WoodDraw wrote: That seems like such a lame excuse to me.  The plaza was never meant to be anything other than a suburban mall.  Over the years, it has organically grown to be something much different, including upscale stores, restaurants, and late night bars.  Is that a bad thing?  Isn't that we want in an urban core?

We can try to centrally plan our city to tell people where the entertainment district should be, where the mall should be, and where the nice restaurants should be, but it'll be at the expense of great, historical areas of our city.  That doesn't mean I'm against the P&L district.  But, I see nothing wrong with seeing whether our heavily subsidized tourist district is doing little more than poaching business away from other parts of the city.

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Re: Effect of P&L District on The Plaza

Post by Mhudson »

Maybe I'm just an optimist, but with a city the size of KC, I like to think two or three major nightlife/retail areas in the core can all be successful.  It'll just take a little time for each to find a niche of their own.

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