Katz on Main

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
herrfrank
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Re: Katz on Main

Post by herrfrank »

The Mobil service station reminds me of the (still operating) ancient service station at 63d and Main, in Brookside. Again, evidence at how Westport was almost village-like in 1940

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FangKC
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Re: Katz on Main

Post by FangKC »

moderne wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:05 pm
Fang, thanks for the research. Luckily appears no significant architecture loss. So many mom and pop small business on just this one block.
Even in 1940, many people still wouldn't have had cars --especially during WWII because automakers stopped making cars entirely, and gas and tire rationing during the war. They either walked or took bus/streetcar to shop in their neighborhoods.

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Re: Katz on Main

Post by flyingember »

FangKC wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:11 pm

Even in 1940, many people still wouldn't have had cars --especially during WWII because automakers stopped making cars entirely, and gas and tire rationing during the war. They either walked or took bus/streetcar to shop in their neighborhoods.
transit ridership was way down by 1940. Pre-war it peaked at 135 million in 1923. It was down to 66 million by 1932. It went up to the 80s during the depression but was back down to 66 million in 1941. then rationing increased wartime ridership and it dropped of very quickly after the war

What's interesting is transit ridership decreased with car ownership going down during the early depression.
car ownership was at it's depression low in 1933, the year after transit ridership reached the bottom. transit use went up through ~1938 but never to the same numbers as 1923. So clearly people walked

the next bottom was 1940 when car ownership was near new highs. There was on car per 4 people. It wouldn't reach 50% until the late 60s and 75% until the 1990s. wartime ownership didn't drop below 1937/38 until well into the war for the US

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fa ... ld-regions

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Re: Katz on Main

Post by herrfrank »

flyingember wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:40 pm
FangKC wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:11 pm

Even in 1940, many people still wouldn't have had cars --especially during WWII because automakers stopped making cars entirely, and gas and tire rationing during the war. They either walked or took bus/streetcar to shop in their neighborhoods.
transit ridership was way down by 1940. Pre-war it peaked at 135 million in 1923. It was down to 66 million by 1932. It went up to the 80s during the depression but was back down to 66 million in 1941. then rationing increased wartime ridership and it dropped of very quickly after the war

What's interesting is transit ridership decreased with car ownership going down during the early depression.
car ownership was at it's depression low in 1933, the year after transit ridership reached the bottom. transit use went up through ~1938 but never to the same numbers as 1923. So clearly people walked

the next bottom was 1940 when car ownership was near new highs. There was on car per 4 people. It wouldn't reach 50% until the late 60s and 75% until the 1990s. wartime ownership didn't drop below 1937/38 until well into the war for the US

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fa ... ld-regions

"So clearly people walked"

My grandparents had a Model T in the 1920s (and I have a picture of them in it, driving to Yellowstone in 1921), but they gave it up sometime around the 1929 crash. Assume my grandfather took the Troost streetcar downtown (his offices were at 18th & Grand in the (still standing) City National Bank Building. They definitely did NOT have a car during the Depression. My Dad remembers walking with a wagon with his sister to the four grocers at 47th and Troost every Saturday.

My grandmother (alone after 1936) did not own a car until her new 1950 Buick. My Uncle and my Dad both had 1930s-era jalopies they basically pieced together from parts in the war years, and they tell endless amusing stories trying to keep those machines running (and the scrapyards and the re-tread con artists and the gasoline ration rackets, including one run by a junior at Westport High School). Their neighborhood (Sunny Slope aka South Hyde Park) was full of teenagers working on cars during the war. Even second-hand bicycles were in high demand.

The pent-up obsession for reliable automobiles from the 15 years of Depression and War created a demand the likes of which durable goods will never experience again, and of course it radically altered American Society.

My Uncle got into photography after his discharge, so most of the high-quality pics we have come after 1946, but they still capture some of the "candid" shots of the old neighborhood.

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FangKC
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Re: Katz on Main

Post by FangKC »

During the Depression and war, in rural NW Missouri, my grandmother, mother, and two aunts (who were small children) walked into town to buy groceries every Saturday. They lived just under two miles from the edge of town, and then it was about six addition blocks to the store.

The children were necessary because my grandmother needed help carrying things. My aunt said that if people had cars, many just parked them during wartime rationing because they traded their gas, oil, and tire rations to other people (usually businesses) to get other things, or cash to buy things they needed. She said they were too poor to have a car back then--as were many.

My aunt said she was so relieved when they finally were able to move to a house in town just 2 1/2 blocks from the store.

As a side note, I imagine a lot of transit ridership dropped off during the Depression years because many people were out of work and not going to work daily. People probably walked shorter distances to save on fares. When I first moved to NYC, I often would walk long distances to save on bus and subway fare, because I was barely making ends meet in the first year I was there. I thought I was the only cheapskate doing that until I talked to other people who said they used to do the same thing in the beginning.

I'd always had stick legs until I moved to New York City, but after living there two years I developed more normally-shaped legs. :lol:

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Re: Katz on Main

Post by chaglang »

herrfrank wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:41 pm
moderne wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:03 pm
That streetcar overpass reminded me of a gate in on old town wall.
Nice analogy -- it was an impressive structure, and it did signal the transition from the Plaza to Westport, despite its simple construction of 1930s Red-D-Mix concrete. I liked how it had a separated passageway for the pedestrian traffic -- all curved to match the site (i.e., the overpass actually had an architect, not just a civil engineer).
On the KC redlining maps, that bridge was also the boundary between the Grade-A Plaza and Grade-C Westport. Transition, indeed.

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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Katz on Main

Post by AlkaliAxel »

When does this project start?

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Chris Stritzel
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Re: Katz on Main

Post by Chris Stritzel »

I discovered the full rendering set of the Old Katz plans. The date of these renderings are November 2019, so long before LuxLiving entered the picture, but Hoefer Welker (at the time: Hoefer Wysocki) is still the architect. I have reason to believe that these were not created for LuxLiving and instead for another developer who once pursued this project, but backed off thus opening the door for Lux to come in.

This plan made it pretty clear that the new apartment building would've been an entirely separate building from the Katz building itself.

The one component of this plan that I really like is the publicly accessible ground level courtyard space (last image). I also notice the striped details in the new building, and curved balconies, are odes to the Katz building itself. Despite the exposed garage and curb cut along Westport, this looks good. And while I'm happy with what we'll be getting, the original plans had some benefits to it (as I pointed out), but what do you all think?
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Old design vs new design (without red brick though)
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Re: Katz on Main

Post by Goonies »

What does this mean?

KATZ DEMOLITION CASE TO BE CONTINUED 30-DAYS
Redeemer Fellowship, owner of the Katz Drug Store building, filed an application with the Kansas City Historic Preservation Commission to demolish the building at 3948 Main St.

Case # CH-DR-2021-00082 originally scheduled to be heard by the Historic Preservation Commission this Friday, JULY 23RD will be continued for 30-days.

The owner of the historic Katz building had moved to start a countdown clock for the structure to be demolished, in light of the City Council's previous vote to deny incentives for an apartment redevelopment.

The request to continue Case # CH-DR-2021-00082 is based upon the revival and approval last week by the City Council of the same apartment redevelopment project. That ordinance will take affect within the next 30 days or so.

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Critical_Mass
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Re: Katz on Main

Post by Critical_Mass »

Chris Stritzel wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:47 am
I discovered the full rendering set of the Old Katz plans. The date of these renderings are November 2019, so long before LuxLiving entered the picture, but Hoefer Welker (at the time: Hoefer Wysocki) is still the architect. I have reason to believe that these were not created for LuxLiving and instead for another developer who once pursued this project, but backed off thus opening the door for Lux to come in.

This plan made it pretty clear that the new apartment building would've been an entirely separate building from the Katz building itself.

The one component of this plan that I really like is the publicly accessible ground level courtyard space (last image). I also notice the striped details in the new building, and curved balconies, are odes to the Katz building itself. Despite the exposed garage and curb cut along Westport, this looks good. And while I'm happy with what we'll be getting, the original plans had some benefits to it (as I pointed out), but what do you all think?
With the previous design, in the original building there's probably opportunity for better spaces-- higher ceilings and exposed trusses. I also love the subtle curved balconies and the rooftop and pool looks more interesting and private/secluded tucked away where it is. The deal breaker would be those blank parking garage walls. That alone makes the new version superior.

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Chris Stritzel
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Re: Katz on Main

Post by Chris Stritzel »

Goonies wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:46 am
What does this mean?

KATZ DEMOLITION CASE TO BE CONTINUED 30-DAYS
Redeemer Fellowship, owner of the Katz Drug Store building, filed an application with the Kansas City Historic Preservation Commission to demolish the building at 3948 Main St.

Case # CH-DR-2021-00082 originally scheduled to be heard by the Historic Preservation Commission this Friday, JULY 23RD will be continued for 30-days.

The owner of the historic Katz building had moved to start a countdown clock for the structure to be demolished, in light of the City Council's previous vote to deny incentives for an apartment redevelopment.

The request to continue Case # CH-DR-2021-00082 is based upon the revival and approval last week by the City Council of the same apartment redevelopment project. That ordinance will take affect within the next 30 days or so.
Plans for the Lux proposal were approved.

This move is related to the current owner's demolition request from a few weeks ago, which was used as a tool to light a fire to get the development plan approved. Demolition for the Katz certainly isn't coming. So this "continuation for 30 days is more or less standard procedure for something like this. Now, the Lux plan would demo a small portion of the Katz, which has a later addition and not historically significant, so that could still require a hearing but nothing on the level of losing the entire building.

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