KCRag Forum

https://cityscenekc.com/port-kc-steams- ... undaries/

$226 Million of additional projects in the pipeline. 1 market rate apartment, 1 hotel, 1 affordable housing project. Streetcar extension to open in 2022

Bar K is a smashing success. I can't believe how busy it was tonight on a Tuesday. What a great idea. This city needs another one. I think where KC Bier is located would be a great location for the Waldo/Brookside crowd. Not sure if there is another spot it could go. It would have to be much smaller than the riverfront location.

Is there anything like this in any other cities in the US? I can't really think of any. I could see this being a huge hit Nationwide.

They are considering expansion to St. Louis, Oklahoma City, Minneapolis and Nashville
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... tions.html

OKC is going to feel a lot like KC soon: Parlor, Chicken N Pickle, Up-Down*, Bar K all opened or planned. (* Up-Down is a Des Moines original, not KC)

Riverfront has a chicken/egg problem. While streetcar extension is planned, suburban style developments with suburban style parking continue by suburban/warehouse minded developers. They need to plan these with future streetcar in mind. When the streetcar does run through, we'll all be thinking WTF were they thinking. A wasted opportunity for expanding downtown urbanity.



https://cityscenekc.com/northpoint-plan ... ront-park/

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:07 am Riverfront has a chicken/egg problem. While streetcar extension is planned, suburban style developments with suburban style parking continue by suburban/warehouse minded developers. They need to plan these with future streetcar in mind. When the streetcar does run through, we'll all be thinking WTF were they thinking. A wasted opportunity for expanding downtown urbanity.



https://cityscenekc.com/northpoint-plan ... ront-park/

I work at NorthPoint and with people on the team for this project. In the article you linked, extreme site constraints from water/sewer easements are mentioned and they are extreme. The large parking lot on the west side of the project is due to two large easements. The parking along the south of the property is due to another water line easement. As well, the layout of the private street and setback on the eastern building are due to another sewer easement.

The project was planned with the streetcar in mind. If you have any particular ideas, suggestions, or feedback feel free to share; I know I would be very interested to hear anyone's thoughts. What do you recommend?

JLowe2018 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:54 am

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:07 am Riverfront has a chicken/egg problem. While streetcar extension is planned, suburban style developments with suburban style parking continue by suburban/warehouse minded developers. They need to plan these with future streetcar in mind. When the streetcar does run through, we'll all be thinking WTF were they thinking. A wasted opportunity for expanding downtown urbanity.



https://cityscenekc.com/northpoint-plan ... ront-park/

I work at NorthPoint and with people on the team for this project. In the article you linked, extreme site constraints from water/sewer easements are mentioned and they are extreme. The large parking lot on the west side of the project is due to two large easements. The parking along the south of the property is due to another water line easement. As well, the layout of the private street and setback on the eastern building are due to another sewer easement.

The project was planned with the streetcar in mind. If you have any particular ideas, suggestions, or feedback feel free to share; I know I would be very interested to hear anyone's thoughts. What do you recommend?

If they are building so much parking then the building itself needs to be built up more.

1:6 parking ratio is super low (one spot to 6 units). It also doesn't match the drawing.

It shows something like 390 spots


1:6 would be 85 parking spots and that would require not building 80% of what's shown

At the very least could remove the internal parking lots and build more units. Only keep parking over the easements and then build taller.

To reach a 1:6 parking ratio would need to build something like 1500 units with only the over easement parking

Is there no vertical limit on any of sewer easement? I've had projects where a garage can be built over a sewer easement, it just requires the first floor to have an exceptionally high clearance (think it was 20'-0"?) and the ground surface needs to be asphalt or another easily replaced material.

Easements or not, the pedestrian connection to the entry lobby looks dinky. The sidewalks should be beefed up.

Also agree with flyingember that at a cursory glance that parking ratio doesn't really sync with the site plan.

Wasn't a hotel supposed to be built on that sliver of land just north of the private road?

JLowe2018 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:54 am

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:07 am Riverfront has a chicken/egg problem. While streetcar extension is planned, suburban style developments with suburban style parking continue by suburban/warehouse minded developers. They need to plan these with future streetcar in mind. When the streetcar does run through, we'll all be thinking WTF were they thinking. A wasted opportunity for expanding downtown urbanity.



https://cityscenekc.com/northpoint-plan ... ront-park/

I work at NorthPoint and with people on the team for this project. In the article you linked, extreme site constraints from water/sewer easements are mentioned and they are extreme. The large parking lot on the west side of the project is due to two large easements. The parking along the south of the property is due to another water line easement. As well, the layout of the private street and setback on the eastern building are due to another sewer easement.

The project was planned with the streetcar in mind. If you have any particular ideas, suggestions, or feedback feel free to share; I know I would be very interested to hear anyone's thoughts. What do you recommend?

One huge improvement would be to extend the decorative island out to the street to create a pedestrian refuge / crosswalk island. It would be dangerous to cross 25 to 30 feet of curb cut at this location with cars driving fast on Berkley Parkway. Making it unsafe for pedestrians is the most suburban-mindset thing happening here. No issues with the over-abundance of parking since the majority of it is hidden behind the buildings.

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:27 am 1:6 parking ratio is super low (one spot to 6 units). It also doesn't match the drawing.

It shows something like 390 spots


1:6 would be 85 parking spots and that would require not building 80% of what's shown

At the very least could remove the internal parking lots and build more units. Only keep parking over the easements and then build taller.

To reach a 1:6 parking ratio would need to build something like 1500 units with only the over easement parking

I looked at the preliminary plans and I'll admit that I have no idea what the "1:6 parking ratio" is communicating.

And yes, a hotel is still planned to the north of the private road by a different developer.

Construction of a parking garage is not planned for this project, but we will have attached single car garages along the rear of the buildings as well as some detached garages up against the railroad.

The sidewalk and pedestrian island suggestions are good ideas, I'll be sure to share them with the team.

Four stories? Half the land is surface parking? Easements or not, this just seems like a waste. There is only so much land in that riverfront area. This is something you might find in a sprawling part of Lee's Summit, not downtown. How did they justify the extension of the streetcar to this area if this is the density that area will be developed?

Typical urban planning is to put building along street and parking in the rear (sad this has to be mentioned). Design in a way that you could do a garage in the future if needed and also add more floors to the building itself and/or garage. Ideally there would be streetfront retail too with residential above. What we have is a suburban style apt complex. Face palm. Fail. Sigh.

Constraints a factor of course but maybe propose ideal designs with constraints as an open item to address rather than proposing designs that assume the constraints can't possibly be addressed.

BTW youse guys, please strip out the quoted images when replying unless many posts away or on next page.

The large lot on the west side is also due to the shared public parking arrangement with Bar K and PortKC mentioned in the article.

And yes, this plan will be solely residential. Hopefully a good, granular and active ground floor will be achieved in the final design. Expect to see a more detailed design when we go to City Hall for approvals this winter. This is still a preliminary design but building location and orientation appear pretty finalized at this point.

Also, won't the "street facing" component of this parcel be the hotel abutting the Grand viaduct (or whatever that road is called right there)? So there is still opportunity for the interaction with the public street to look nice.

kboish wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:51 pm Also, won't the "street facing" component of this parcel be the hotel abutting the Grand viaduct (or whatever that road is called right there)? So there is still opportunity for the interaction with the public street to look nice.

Unfortunately, from some site plans I've seen of the hotel*, it appears it will be your standard "rectangular, roadside hotel box with carport" with the carport on the south side and completely inactive ground floor on the north side...surrounded by parking on all sides of course...

The hotel project is what I'm worried will be true stain on the area. I really hope something much better is actually proposed.

*And again, the hotel is not our project but is by someone else.

^ Seems like a good spot for a higher end hotel with structured parking etc. The riverfront is turning into a suburban interstate exit or something you might find in Oklahoma City or something. Hate to be negative, but these past few developments look terrible.

Yeah if the riverfront turns out to be a string of suburban apt complexes, we shouldn't even bother with wasting streetcar funding unless the casino pays for it. Should pursue other potential lines that can truly pursue urban TOD. The riverfront shouldn't even be considered part of downtown with the path it's taking at this point. What a lost opportunity.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:10 pm ^ Seems like a good spot for a higher end hotel with structured parking etc. The riverfront is turning into a suburban interstate exit or something you might find in Oklahoma City or something. Hate to be negative, but these past few developments look terrible.

I hate to agree with this, but it's true. This location deserves several 10 to 20 story residential towers.

Ridiculous that riverfront property in places like Louisville and Omaha attract high rise residential, but KC ends up with schlock. The affordable housing development looks like a soviet-era block and now this and a squat hotel surrounded by parking and with no street/pedestrian activity? Is anyone with the Port Authority demanding (or even asking for) a better fit for the site?

It’s good that the riverfront is being redeveloped and all, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of imagination behind the projects built there. Major missed opportunity. Imagine what could’ve been built instead of this stuff