Case Park

[chrizow]

That Sucks Your Wife Doesnt Feel Safe Now.  One Murder In The Loop In Three Years Isnt Bad   Especially This Type Of Situation That Is Easily Solved

did you type this response from a cell phone or PDA?  (i ask because of the capital letters).  if so, that is pretty cool.

as for Case Park, is this the park the Pitch (i think) wrote about a couple of years ago, that is near the old KC Club?  apparnetly teens loitered around there a lot, and sometimes people would end up shot.

anyway, based on the posts here, it seems like the solution isn't necessarily barricading the park or restricting access.  it seems like this is a purely police problem.  teens gathering in a park is ok.  crowds getting out of hand is not ok, and shootings are definitely not ok.  sounds like a case of hindsight and shoulda/woulda/coulda. 

[KCPowercat]

I did type it from a cell phone.  I found the WAP interface for the site earlier.

mean...my point about the streets being blocked off are this.  The crowd that gathers in Case in the evenings many times are driving pimped out cars dressed up to impress....take away their ability to show off their cars and they will move elsewhere....which obviously doesn't solve the overall issue but having thousands of people unsupervised in a park around many residential buildings is not the answer either.

and no I did not call the police about the issue....hindsight I should have. 

rusty...yeah no doubt it only takes one.  It doesn't bother me as much because I see this as an isolated incident of a crowd of people getting out of control.  Now a woman being snatched there and killed or a random shooting would bother me a lot more.  This was young rage in a fight out of control.

Overall the answer isn't blocking off every park in the city but this whining about kids not being able to gather in Swope or Westport is bogus....we were all kids once...find something else to do than gather by the 1,000's in places you frankly don't belong.

[mean]

It's the same everywhere. Kids get together and act in a way adults consider stupid and once in a while someone ends up dead. The only part we have any hope of stopping (or at least minimizing) is the dead part, and that's only going to happen through compassionately understanding that this is what they want to do, this is what they're going to do no matter what WE want them to do, and it is therefore OUR responsibility as adults to help them do it safely without killing each other. The comment about not hanging out in front of residential towers is totally bogus. No matter where the kids decide to hang, someone will have a good reason they shouldn't be there.

I'm not sure why there's a problem with kids showing off their pimped out cars and dressing to impress anyway. This doesn't seem like it should be a problem, and it sure isn't going away as long as there are bored horny kids and cars. So why would you take away their ability to show off their cars? Are their cars shooting people? Is the showing off of cars causing people to shoot each other? I honestly don't see the correlation.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Obviously kids are going to find away to gather and get up to mischief - thats just the laws of nature.  However, if they have managed to gather by the hundreds (much less thousands as was the case here) in a big unsuprevised party and the police department can't even get it together to send a single car by to check it out, there is a major police problem.  Did no patrol manage to go by all night and notice a problem?  You would think that a park like this would be scheduled for a fairly routine pass though. 

P.S. - I love how the initial Star article managed to leave out any indication that there was a big party with thousands of kids present.  If you read the thing you would come away with the impression that this was just a fight with no one around to witness it. 

[KCPowercat]

oh well kids act stupid and every once in awhile someone ends up dead...ho hum.

I have no problem with kids gathering...hell we all did it.  It's never going to stop and this thread has nothing to do with trying to stop it.  I also have no problem with police coming by and breaking up these gathering points when they get to the size I've seen.  I had cops break up my "hangout" spots...I didn't blame it on adults not doing enough for me.

The only part we have any hope of stopping (or at least minimizing) is the dead part, and that's only going to happen through compassionately understanding that this is what they want to do, this is what they're going to do no matter what WE want them to do, and it is therefore OUR responsibility as adults to help them do it safely without killing each other

This confuses me.  Yes we want to minimize the dead part, not sure adults being compassionate and understanding about them wanting to gather would do anything to minimize some bad apples packing heat, getting into fights, and killing people.  Am I missing something?  I agree we need to find a way for them to hang out safely...I think part of that is not letting crowds get out of control and stopping gathering points like Westport when they become out of control.

True there is no problem with kids showing off their cars....there is a problem with this specific group...at least some of them....obviously.

The real solution has nothing to do with police or closing parks....it's people teaching their kids how to act....that is obviously missing around here anymore.

[ignatius]

Why So Many Slayings In Kansas City?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&c ... bc/2811043

It is not drugs. It is not domestic violence. So what is causing the city's homicide rate to jump?

The No. 1 cause of homicide is simply rage, KMBC's Jim Flink reported. He said arguments between people who know each other have caused two-thirds of all the murder cases solved this year.

"This year at least, it seems like people are unable to resolve their conflicts, and unfortunately, they are resorting to guns," Capt. Rich Lockhart said.

In one case, a woman stabbed her boyfriend. In another case, a man made the mistake of laughing off a robbery attempt.

"The person laughed at the idea of getting robbed and ended up getting shot over it," Lockhart said.

But of the 26 homicides solved so far this year, 17 were cases of rage, compared with five for robbery, six for domestic disputes, three drug-related killings, and there are so many more cases unsolved.

"Out of the 61 murders this year, 48 involved guns. And we just have to do a better job of dealing with our anger when we have firearms around," Lockhart said.

Police are struggling with number of cases they're dealing with.

"For us, it may look like a number, but our officers are the ones having to deal with those families," Lockhart said.

Lockhart said that the city is not seeing a crime wave. He said one year does not make a trend.

"As people, we have to figure out a way to resolve our differences in a way other than through violence," Lockhart said.

[scooterj]

Someone caught the shooting on video...

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/new ... etail.html

[Big Red Storm]

Wow..... Wouldn't have guessed someone caught it on tape.

[GRID]

Case Park is not inviting at all.  I'm not sure what has happened, but most of KC's parks are in trouble.  Case, Waterworks, Minor, etc.  all have prostitution, drug and vandelism problems.  PVP is finally starting to improve some, but now most of the bad element of that park has moved to the Scout area.  Even Loose has a lot of issues, but there are some wealthy millionairs that throw a lot of money at that park.  And Swope?  PVP should be our big city park, not a park that does not even feel like an urban park.  Once again, spread out KC gets the best of this town.  KC has too many parks that cover too much land and are not connected to the rest of the urban fabric of KC.  Loose and Mill Creek are the only trully sucessful parks in KC at this point.  This city still has not figured this out.  Just look at isolated and practically unused Berkley Park.

[dangerboy]

Great points Grid.  Despite all of the talk about our parks and boulevard heritage, we really don't do a good job with them.  The key to success with Mill Creek and Loose Parks is getting people in there to use them, which deters the bad elements.  Parks & Rec does a good job with design, but a very poor job with programming.  The Penn Valley dog park is a great example.  KCSCOOP had to lobby and beg to get permission to build, and they had to pay for most of it themselves.  In contrast, the other cities in the metro are now approaching Scoop with offers of land and cash to build more dog parks, while KCMO still drags its feet on more dog parks in the city  limits.

Penn Valley is MUCH better with the dog park in place, and the problems at the Scout statue should be deterred once the skate park and One Park Place are finished.  Berkley does get a lot of joggers during the day and after work, and the temporary skate ramp is drawing a lot of users day and night.  Disc golf has also brought a lot of users to several parks like Water Works and Cliff Drive.  There are also many good neighorhood parks like Westwood, Roanoke, Hyde, Gillham, etc.

Bottom line, the people of KC need to decide if they want to continue with the status quo, get rid of some parks and put the savings into the remaining parks, or step with the money to make all of our parks great.  The Parks Board is already talking about a possible tax proposal in the next year or so.

[tat2kc]

The only parks, or portions of parks,. that are well maintained and well used, are those that have been turned over the private entities for maintainence. The Parks and Rec department are extremely overextended, yet they continue to demand absolute control over every inch of parkland and boulevard right of way. They also continue to add more facilites and ammenities that also need maintainence. So what is going to suffer? The new stuff, or more of the old stuff?

the parks are a great asset to the commnity, but if the city cannot maintain them, then for God's sake, don't build more stuff. Get rid of the stuff you can't handle. Or increase and more responsibly use your limited resources.

[knucklehead]

Based on reading the posts and the article the facts seem to be that (1) this happended at 1:20 in the morning on Tuesday July 5th (which is just after midnight on July fourth) in a park that is on the fringe of downtown; (2) there was a fairly large group of kids, the crowd was much larger than usual because of the forth of July holiday. Most nights the park is calm and quiet at that time according to someone who lives nearby  (3) Quality Hill has a security service that is usually present at this time of night but was not on this night for some unknown reason (maybe the holiday); (4) the police were called but did not come because they were unusually busy, probably because of the fourth of July holiday; (5) some hot head kids got into a fight and it went bad and someone got shot. 

Sounds like an instance where everything that could go wrong did. They key factors seem to be the fourth of July holiday, Quality Hill security not being there, and the idiotic fact that in this country 17 year old kids have guns.

Still, it seems reasonable that public parks should not be open to the public after 10 pm at night. That way anyone in the park can be charged with tresspassing if the security service or cops don't like the look of things. Unfortunately the circle at 9th in Jefferson is also a public street. So closing the park at night would also mean closing a street. Not sure how practical that is.

As far as all of the lamenting about how bad kids are today. That is what old people have been saying for thousands of years. They said the same thing about my generation and I am pushing 50. Kids do stupid things. It has been that way for a long time. 

[Beermo]

a friend just moved to a townhouse off of 10th st. and i met him and his girlfriend and some other friends up at case about 11pm at case park.

it was wild. therewas people everywhere. fireworks going off in barrages. lots of fun.

we left about 12:15 of so and went back to his place to party.

there were a lot of kids there that night, not just teenagers, little kids. a friend almost got her head taken off with a bottle rocket fired off by a kid who looked to be about 8 years old. he was with his family.

[kevink]

The only parks, or portions of parks,. that are well maintained and well used, are those that have been turned over the private entities for maintainence. The Parks and Rec department are extremely overextended, yet they continue to demand absolute control over every inch of parkland and boulevard right of way. They also continue to add more facilites and ammenities that also need maintainence. So what is going to suffer? The new stuff, or more of the old stuff?

the parks are a great asset to the commnity, but if the city cannot maintain them, then for God's sake, don't build more stuff. Get rid of the stuff you can't handle. Or increase and more responsibly use your limited resources.

It might help if the parks were actually integrated into the neighborhoods better, and were surrounded by a decent density of potential users. Too many of our "great" parks are really left-over pieces of land, and not fronted by residences or businesses of any kind of density. It's no surprise that Mill Creek & Loose are so heavily used - look at where they are, and their edges.

[KCMax]

My girl and I were driving around downtown last night and we stumbled upon Quality Hill and instantly loved it. Unfortunately, once I tell her there was a murder in Case Park a few weeks ago, there is no way in hell she will want to move there.

Sad, but true.

[ignatius]

^You could also tell her there was a murder in Olathe and one 5 blocks away from the Plaza a couple years ago.  I don't think downtown loop has any murders in the last few years other than this.  Not sure.

[KCN]

I have come here several times to watch lightning shows over the northland at night.  Shady characters all around me but no one that really frightened me.  Just a mind your own business and have no problems kind of thing.  I definitely would return.

[KCMax]

You could also tell her there was a murder in Olathe and one 5 blocks away from the Plaza a couple years ago.

I could, but we don't want to live in either of those places.

[Long]

You could also tell her there was a murder in Olathe and one 5 blocks away from the Plaza a couple years ago.

I could, but we don't want to live in either of those places.

Yes but it illustrates the point that (a) murders happen even in the "best" neighborhoods and (b) this has been the only murder in the loop (which is supposedly "scary downtown") in the last three years.

[KCPowercat]

You could also tell her there was a murder in Olathe and one 5 blocks away from the Plaza a couple years ago.

I could, but we don't want to live in either of those places.

I can understand her fears but as others had said, if you can't live anywhere within a mile of a murder, you are going to have a problem living anywhre.