feature story in the Pitch about the tax abatement menace.

[chrizow]

http://www.pitch.com/issues/current/news/feature.html

pretty interesting article about how folks moving into $500,000 condos pay $300 a year in property taxes as a result of abatements and incentives, whereas the poor pay way more.  (for example, the homeowner of the house on prospect where a prostitute was found murdered pays $512 a year in taxes and Extreme Makeover subject S. Johnson paid $1,200/yr on his old home on the raytown border). 

as much as we like downtown's growth, this inequity is troubling. 

[KC0KEK]

Downtown definitely has some sweet deals. A friend of mine has a ~$4M townhouse on the Plaza, and his taxes just doubled to $41K.

[zonk]

The inequity might be troubling...but those buyers still have to pony up $200+ per square foot.  That ain't cheap!

[KCMax]

A plug for this site too! Although I wouldn't characterize this as a "blog", its more of a message board.

[staubio]

I always had a feeling that a lot of the Pitch folks hung out here... particularly Tony Ortega.

[chrizow]

The inequity might be troubling...but those buyers still have to pony up $200+ per square foot.  That ain't cheap!

it's true that the lofts are pricey, but it isn't fair that a lawyer buying a $400,000 loft gets to pay $200/year for taxes whereas some $6/hr laborer living in a $30,000 house at 27th and Tracy has to pay 4 times that.  the poor are subsidizing city services in order for the wealthy to live in expensive lofts. 

[dangerboy]

it's true that the lofts are pricey, but it isn't fair that a lawyer buying a $400,000 loft gets to pay $200/year for taxes whereas some $6/hr laborer living in a $30,000 house at 27th and Tracy has to pay 4 times that.  the poor are subsidizing city services in order for the wealthy to live in expensive lofts. 

This is totally out of control.  The worst part is that the city has no policy to regulate the tax breaks.  I'm in favor of using them to jump-start development, especially rehabbing historic buildings, but we need some rules to define when to phase out the subsidies. 

If someone makes enough money to buy a $400,000 loft, will they really be driven away by a $3000 tax bill?

Real estate developers are the new political machine in KC. 

[trailerkid]

Ahh...yeah...Kemper got a tax abatement at Kirkwood. 

[KCMax]

Are there standards at all for abatements or is it purely on a case-by-case basis?

[diamond]

This kind of talk makes me want to vomit.  Life just isn't fair.  Some people will always find something to complain about.  Get an education, become a lawyer and you can buy a nice condo and pay little takes also.  The poor have more handouts than they know what to do with.  Unreal.

[K.C.Highrise]

I will play devils advocate and say that these tax breaks need to continue for a while longer.

[GRID]

I will play devils advocate and say that these tax breaks need to continue for a while longer.

I think you are right.

Also, that home on Prospect or the Extreme makever Johnson's also pay for the stadiums, zoo, liberty memorial, etc so people who live in $300,000 homes in Johnson County can have a big city quality of life

There are a lot of things that are not right.

[chrizow]

This kind of talk makes me want to vomit.  Life just isn't fair.  Some people will always find something to complain about.  Get an education, become a lawyer and you can buy a nice condo and pay little takes also.  The poor have more handouts than they know what to do with.  Unreal.

go talk to the thousands of people living in poverty in this city and ask them about all the handouts.  boy howdy they are LUCKY!!!!

besides, i am not saying that we shouldn't have tax abatements.  i am just pointing out the downside of the system.  it's just another way the rich pave the way for rich.

[KCLofts]

I live in abated property and pay $60/yr in property taxes.  I'll admit, this was a big consideration in my purchasing a loft.  As mentioned, these things aren't cheap.  The abatement helps to cushion the blow a bit and allow more people to afford these units.

And while the people living in high dollar lofts are paying next to nothing in property tax, what about all of the other taxes they are contributing to the city's coffers.  1% earnings tax - without the influx of higher income people coming into the city to live in these abated properties, the city might otherwise be losing out on their 1%.  Sales tax - these people spend quite a bit more of their hard-earned money in the neighborhood establishments.  I would guess that when you factor all of this in together, the loft dwellers are making a hefty contribution to the tax base, just in a different way.

[Beermo]

I live in abated property and pay $60/yr in property taxes.  I'll admit, this was a big consideration in my purchasing a loft.  As mentioned, these things aren't cheap.  The abatement helps to cushion the blow a bit and allow more people to afford these units.

And while the people living in high dollar lofts are paying next to nothing in property tax, what about all of the other taxes they are contributing to the city's coffers.  1% earnings tax - without the influx of higher income people coming into the city to live in these abated properties, the city might otherwise be losing out on their 1%.  Sales tax - these people spend quite a bit more of their hard-earned money in the neighborhood establishments.  I would guess that when you factor all of this in together, the loft dwellers are making a hefty contribution to the tax base, just in a different way.

interesting angle, but i pay over $1000 in property taxes in my old 1950's ranch house and i also pay that swell e-tax you described and i don't live in k.c. this is exactly why i try to spend as little as possible while i'm dt at work.

i pay for my garbage disposal out of my pocket via a check out of my checking account. do you? well if you live in k.c. you get free trash disposal at my expense.  k.c. is all about inequity.

yes, some things aren't fair.

[trailerkid]

This kind of talk makes me want to vomit.  Life just isn't fair.  Some people will always find something to complain about.  Get an education, become a lawyer and you can buy a nice condo and pay little takes also.  The poor have more handouts than they know what to do with.  Unreal.

We're not talking about "fair." We're talking about paying taxes. Sorry, but multi-millionaires who live in multi-million dollar condos should pay taxes on their property just like the rest of us.

[snarf]

I just moved into a loft in the crossroads.  From the time we signed the contract to close it took two years.  Two years ago, we didn't know all that was projected with downtown development.  We really didn't know at that time if this was going to be the right move, but the tax incentive made it hard to pass up and more of a "how can we really lose?" kind of a deal.  I think the city wanted to quickly move people downtown, and were hoping to attract some people with expendable income to help bolster the downtown in this agressive development phase.  The incentives did help in that effort. Now that the growth is in full swing, I would anticipate the need for tax incentives to move the money into the city, will phase itself out.

[chrizow]

one justification i could see for this is attracting suburbanites and people from other cities to the KCMO downtown core, who in turn spend money in the core, adding money to the city's coffers through sales taxes, liquor taxes, whatever. 

i assume the idea is to get these middle class and wealthy people downtown, then get them to revitalize development downtown via their discretionary income, which could potentially more than make up for the property tax abatement gap.

[Marreekarr]

This kind of talk makes me want to vomit.  Life just isn't fair.  Some people will always find something to complain about.  Get an education, become a lawyer and you can buy a nice condo and pay little takes also.  The poor have more handouts than they know what to do with.  Unreal.

Handouts for the poor are not even in the same category as tax abatements for the rich.  Handouts are not used as incentives to get poor people to enjoy living on skid row.  Their not being used to get chrizow's $6 an hour laborer to move into the Crossroads or Downtown.  In fact, [shadow=red,left]handouts[/shadow] for the lower classes are meant to act as a pacifier to keep social problems from getting out of hand.

The bottom line is that those who contribute at the lower end of the social/economic spectrum are simply not valued by the rest of us.  There is no 'incentive' offered for a rewarding lifestyle for people who help make our lives comfortable.  That is why we tip doormen and waitresses.  Why not encourage them to live near us as well?

[dangerboy]

one justification i could see for this is attracting suburbanites and people from other cities to the KCMO downtown core, who in turn spend money in the core, adding money to the city's coffers through sales taxes, liquor taxes, whatever. 

i assume the idea is to get these middle class and wealthy people downtown, then get them to revitalize development downtown via their discretionary income, which could potentially more than make up for the property tax abatement gap.

That's a valid and necessary strategy, but we need to define some goals so we can measure the succes of the incentives and know when to start phasing them out.  This is the big problem with KC's tax abatement and TIF programs, there is no rhyme or reason.

The discretionary income is nice, but it doesn't help the school district, library district, community college district, etc. that rely almost soley on property taxes.  The sales tax paid by suburbanites at Bulldog or Retro Inferno is of little help for these jurisdictions.  Property taxes are necessary for everything from running the new Central Library to paying for Jackson County's obligations at the Truman Sports Complex.