Capping the Loop

[TheLastGentleman]

Removing the north loop should crush all other priorities by a wide margin

[FangKC]

My concern about prioritizing the North Loop removal right now is that it will add even more parcels of land for development downtown to compete with parcels that have yet to be developed. Mainly I'm talking about the current North Loop surface lots and the East Village.

[AlkaliAxel]

My concern about prioritizing the North Loop removal right now is that it will add even more parcels of land for development downtown to compete with parcels that have yet to be developed. Mainly I'm talking about the current North Loop surface lots and the East Village.

I really like that idea someone floated on twitter about turning it into our Central Park.

[dnweava]

My concern about prioritizing the North Loop removal right now is that it will add even more parcels of land for development downtown to compete with parcels that have yet to be developed. Mainly I'm talking about the current North Loop surface lots and the East Village.

I really like that idea someone floated on twitter about turning it into our Central Park.

This wouldn't be comparable to central park at all.

http://www.mapfrappe.com/legacy.html?show=61089

[normalthings]

How about we move the American Royal back but use the new capped park for smoking and T-Mobile (I still want to call it Sprint) for events? Get the federal or state government to pay for the cap.

Give Missouri Star Bonds and then we can talk

[DaveKCMO]

Removing the north loop should crush all other priorities by a wide margin

This.

[chaglang]

My concern about prioritizing the North Loop removal right now is that it will add even more parcels of land for development downtown to compete with parcels that have yet to be developed. Mainly I'm talking about the current North Loop surface lots and the East Village.

I really like that idea someone floated on twitter about turning it into our Central Park.

Regardless of what's happening with the surrounding parcels or the east village, this would be a prime location in downtown. Unlike the surface lots that may have owners unwilling to sell or parking lease agreements tied to them, the north loop parcels are available on Day 1. On the other hand, creating 30 more acres of parkland for the city to maintain seems like a bad use of limited funds. Parks struggles to maintain what they have already - and that's after a sales tax increase a few years ago. Fiscally it seems insane.

Play out the worst-case scenarios: If you create a park and the surrounding parcels never develop, then we have a huge void between RM and DT that is generating no revenue and sucking up money in the Parks budget. And AFAIK there's no indication that a park would spur any adjacent development. Alternately, if you develop the north loop parcels and the surrounding lots never develop, you still have tax revenue and density from the development. And eventually, one of the surface lots could be converted into a park if that's really what is the highest and best use of the land. The second scenario is less flashy and lower risk, but immediately better from a density standpoint more fiscally responsible.

[Riverite]

My concern about prioritizing the North Loop removal right now is that it will add even more parcels of land for development downtown to compete with parcels that have yet to be developed. Mainly I'm talking about the current North Loop surface lots and the East Village.

I really like that idea someone floated on twitter about turning it into our Central Park.

Regardless of what's happening with the surrounding parcels or the east village, this would be a prime location in downtown. Unlike the surface lots that may have owners unwilling to sell or parking lease agreements tied to them, the north loop parcels are available on Day 1. On the other hand, creating 30 more acres of parkland for the city to maintain seems like a bad use of limited funds. Parks struggles to maintain what they have already - and that's after a sales tax increase a few years ago. Fiscally it seems insane.

Play out the worst-case scenarios: If you create a park and the surrounding parcels never develop, then we have a huge void between RM and DT that is generating no revenue and sucking up money in the Parks budget. And AFAIK there's no indication that a park would spur any adjacent development. Alternately, if you develop the north loop parcels and the surrounding lots never develop, you still have tax revenue and density from the development. And eventually, one of the surface lots could be converted into a park if that's really what is the highest and best use of the land. The second scenario is less flashy and lower risk, but immediately better from a density standpoint more fiscally responsible.

I honestly think a small park would be a good idea out the gate as that area doesn’t have much green space, however i agree that much more than a small space would immediately become a resource drain and would take away available area that could become quite dense

[DaveKCMO]

A small parklet inside a 30-acre development should suffice, although there are nice parks very close by: Ilus Davis, Columbus Square, City Market, West Terrace. Also, if the street grid is restored then those streets should be ultra green (think 20th Street, not Delaware through City Market).

[TheLastGentleman]

It’s beyond me how anyone could think turning the north loop into just more parkland is a good idea. It seems pretty agreed upon that tearing down all those buildings for the north loop was bad, and it also seems uncontroversial that kc has trouble maintaining the parks it has, so why forgo rebuilding that lost density in favor of yet more unmanageable park space?

I’m all for public space, but I’m also all for good streets with buildings on them

[KCPowercat]

Agreed. Needs to be more than greenspace as a master plan. Could see that as an interim state.

[earthling]

What are the federal/state limits of uses over a freeway?

[langosta]

What are the federal/state limits of uses over a freeway?

I think the state bands commercial private uses.

[langosta]

A loop cap being used for concerts, etc would do well with a one or two hotel highrises. One across the cap from Sprint Center would be a start.

[AlkaliAxel]

I do think it should be a park, in my opinion. My gf and I are in our young 20's, we visit P&L district quite often, and the other week we were walking north on Main from the P&L district and she says "eh, turn around and go back, there's nothing even down there". That's what really got me thinking that putting a really great park down there would actually be a great draw for people to head down there. Im telling you if you just plop some apartments or "mixed use" then still nobody is gonna have a reason to go down there unless they live there. You can talk about the fiscal reason as well but I have no doubt the area around it would be developed. That's the only way I ever see pedestrians who don't live downtown willing to ever step foot in that direction of it.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I do think it should be a park, in my opinion. My gf and I are in our young 20's, we visit P&L district quite often, and the other week we were walking north on Main from the P&L district and she says "eh, turn around and go back, there's nothing even down there". That's what really got me thinking that putting a really great park down there would actually be a great draw for people to head down there. Im telling you if you just plop some apartments or "mixed use" then still nobody is gonna have a reason to go down there unless they live there. You can talk about the fiscal reason as well but I have no doubt the area around it would be developed. That's the only way I ever see pedestrians who don't live downtown willing to ever step foot in that direction of it.

Your argument is that no one goes to the River Market?

[AlkaliAxel]

I do think it should be a park, in my opinion. My gf and I are in our young 20's, we visit P&L district quite often, and the other week we were walking north on Main from the P&L district and she says "eh, turn around and go back, there's nothing even down there". That's what really got me thinking that putting a really great park down there would actually be a great draw for people to head down there. Im telling you if you just plop some apartments or "mixed use" then still nobody is gonna have a reason to go down there unless they live there. You can talk about the fiscal reason as well but I have no doubt the area around it would be developed. That's the only way I ever see pedestrians who don't live downtown willing to ever step foot in that direction of it.

Your argument is that no one goes to the River Market?

I knew someone would say that lol. Nobody walks to River Market from P&L, or even takes streetcar there much. There are a few draws down there but not a ton. I think putting a great park there would heavily increase pedestrian traffic and awareness of River Market

[beautyfromashes]

What is this "River Market" that you speak of?!

[AlkaliAxel]

I think it would be great if we had a real downtown park like most great cities have (i.e. Central Park, Golden Gate Park, Forrest Park, Balboa Park, Denver Park, etc.) because I really do think it would be used alot, just as the parks in those cities are. If you're really concerned about the fiscal side of things, we can add things to help that by putting in an amenities like an ice rink or other items. Would actually be another thing to get people downtown in the winter.

[langosta]

I think it would be great if we had a real downtown park like most great cities have (i.e. Central Park, Golden Gate Park, Forrest Park, Balboa Park, Denver Park, etc.) because I really do think it would be used alot, just as the parks in those cities are. If you're really concerned about the fiscal side of things, we can add things to help that by putting in an amenities like an ice rink or other items. Would actually be another thing to get people downtown in the winter.

Berkeley’s idea of having each amenity operated and maintained by a 3rd party is the way to go and what Cordish seems to desire with the loop cap.