I'm beginning to realize GRID's point about how even simple things such as laying down a giant slab of concrete takes 20 years and everything is just too slow and ineffective here
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:40 am
I'm beginning to realize GRID's point about how even simple things such as laying down a giant slab of concrete takes 20 years and everything is just too slow and ineffective here
I think you don’t realize that most big infrastructure projects take awhile, yes KC has historically been slower than others but 10 years is not uncommon. Government doesn’t work by saying I want something so therefor I get it you need studies done and impact assessments. By galvanizing support we hope to make it go faster, but government has many moving parts and works slow in anywhere with a democracy. Unless you live in an authoritarian country no one can snap their fingers and make something happen.
Also it’s not just a slap of concrete is a three block wide bridge essentially. If it were as simple as pouring concrete it could be done next year.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:40 am
I'm beginning to realize GRID's point about how even simple things such as laying down a giant slab of concrete takes 20 years and everything is just too slow and ineffective here
This has a lot of moving parts. Posting over and over asking why hasn't a project started yet doesn't mean it's going slow.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:40 am
I'm beginning to realize GRID's point about how even simple things such as laying down a giant slab of concrete takes 20 years and everything is just too slow and ineffective here
This is partially a function of us having very few corporate heavyweights in our city center. If .ie Garmin or Cerner were DT, they probably would make a significant donation to a project like this, get naming rights and have an amenity for their employees. Compared to other cities, we have so few large HQ'd companies. It also says we have to start attracting these types of businesses...or implement programs to help them develop organically.
It’s so bizarre to me that people expect private companies to pay for massive infrastructure projects here. What expertise does Cerner or cordish have at this?
If the city wants it, they should put out a rfp and begin discussions on funding with modot and dot. Nothing is happening without those two on board.
Afterwards you can sell off the rights to name it, sell food, run a dog park, etc.
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:17 am
It’s so bizarre to me that people expect private companies to pay for massive infrastructure projects here. What expertise does Cerner or cordish have at this?
If the city wants it, they should put out a rfp and begin discussions on funding with modot and dot. Nothing is happening without those two on board.
Afterwards you can sell off the rights to name it, sell food, run a dog park, etc.
Kc does not have the money for that project. That’s probably why cordish is seriously talking about funding it. Unfortunately until KC seriously manages its debt and densifies it won’t be able to take on things like park projects
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:17 am
It’s so bizarre to me that people expect private companies to pay for massive infrastructure projects here. What expertise does Cerner or cordish have at this?
If the city wants it, they should put out a rfp and begin discussions on funding with modot and dot. Nothing is happening without those two on board.
Afterwards you can sell off the rights to name it, sell food, run a dog park, etc.
Kc does not have the money for that project. That’s probably why cordish is seriously talking about funding it. Unfortunately until KC seriously manages its debt and densifies it won’t be able to take on things like park projects
Cordish doesn’t have the money or the ability to build this. Even if they decide to contribute money as part of a p3 project, it’s going to have to be City led.
Hopefully with funds from Missouri and the Feds.
But the idea that a private company is just going to deck it is unbelievable.
Kcp was correct earlier that the city needs to take a strategic look at the entire downtown loop and come up with a preferred plan so we can start asking for funding as it becomes available.
In a response to all who quoted my post- I see this thread about capping the loop was created in 2004. It’s now 2021 and we’re still seeing excuses even *with* a built up row of buildings. That’s why I’m frustrated.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:06 pm
In a response to all who quoted my post- I see this thread about capping the loop was created in 2004. It’s now 2021 and we’re still seeing excuses even *with* a built up row of buildings. That’s why I’m frustrated.
It wasn’t seriously talked about till a few years ago that’s like if we say it took 70+ years to get the train to the airport when it happens, technically true but utterly ignorant of what was happening on the ground.
I get you are excited about developments we all are, I’m just saying KC isn’t unique where it takes time and resources are limited. Things take time and other things might have priority. Being impatient about large civic projects will just make you frustrated.
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:17 am
It’s so bizarre to me that people expect private companies to pay for massive infrastructure projects here. What expertise does Cerner or cordish have at this?
If the city wants it, they should put out a rfp and begin discussions on funding with modot and dot. Nothing is happening without those two on board.
Afterwards you can sell off the rights to name it, sell food, run a dog park, etc.
Kc does not have the money for that project. That’s probably why cordish is seriously talking about funding it. Unfortunately until KC seriously manages its debt and densifies it won’t be able to take on things like park projects
Cordish doesn’t have the money or the ability to build this. Even if they decide to contribute money as part of a p3 project, it’s going to have to be City led.
Hopefully with funds from Missouri and the Feds.
But the idea that a private company is just going to deck it is unbelievable.
Kcp was correct earlier that the city needs to take a strategic look at the entire downtown loop and come up with a preferred plan so we can start asking for funding as it becomes available.
Cordish has the money and ability, but taking on this project alone isn't smart. They're willing to put a big chunk of money into it, likely even the biggest piece of the pie, but even with programming, the park itself won't ever big a giant revenue stream. You'd have to work it hard to generate 2 million a year in revenue, really hard.
MoDot will lead the cap portion, Cordish would be project lead once the foundation and surface are complete. The cities involvement should be minimal, but obviously needs to be included.
I do think we will see this happen faster than 2028.
Kc does not have the money for that project. That’s probably why cordish is seriously talking about funding it. Unfortunately until KC seriously manages its debt and densifies it won’t be able to take on things like park projects
Cordish doesn’t have the money or the ability to build this. Even if they decide to contribute money as part of a p3 project, it’s going to have to be City led.
Hopefully with funds from Missouri and the Feds.
But the idea that a private company is just going to deck it is unbelievable.
Kcp was correct earlier that the city needs to take a strategic look at the entire downtown loop and come up with a preferred plan so we can start asking for funding as it becomes available.
Cordish has the money and ability, but taking on this project alone isn't smart. They're willing to put a big chunk of money into it, likely even the biggest piece of the pie, but even with programming, the park itself won't ever big a giant revenue stream. You'd have to work it hard to generate 2 million a year in revenue, really hard.
MoDot will lead the cap portion, Cordish would be project lead once the foundation and surface are complete. The cities involvement should be minimal, but obviously needs to be included.
I do think we will see this happen faster than 2028.
Is cordish willing to issue bonds backed by them? The answer is no.
Cordish is a great partner that wants to program it, but they can’t do more.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:06 pm
In a response to all who quoted my post- I see this thread about capping the loop was created in 2004. It’s now 2021 and we’re still seeing excuses even *with* a built up row of buildings. That’s why I’m frustrated.
It wasn’t seriously talked about till a few years ago that’s like if we say it took 70+ years to get the train to the airport when it happens, technically true but utterly ignorant of what was happening on the ground.
I get you are excited about developments we all are, I’m just saying KC isn’t unique where it takes time and resources are limited. Things take time and other things might have priority. Being impatient about large civic projects will just make you frustrated.
I just want to see progress, even minimal. Didn't they have renderings of this in 2009 or even earlier?
In this video it shows renderings made in 2009: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqVIwrzjscs
Last I checked a couple weeks ago it's still just more...renderings. If we've known about this for a dozen years then why isn't it moving through the works *at all*? I'm not in-the-know but I'm not sure why they're not progressing on this with documents, filings, literally anything to move the ball forward. That's really all I'm looking for. If after 12 years we're still just printing out new renderings I feel justified to have some frustration.
There is progress I believe it was first decided as a strategy in 2016, and a study for cost came out in 2018. The coronavirus has put a hamper on the plans a bit, but they are working towards it.
Also if you read between the lines in DColes comments it is moving forward just keep in mind that everything on here has to be public info. Trust me anything secret on the rag leaks within a day as council members and journalists read the threads
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:29 pm
How much influence does Rag have then?
Probably none, we are a small subset of development enthusiasts. You can get influence if you work in local government or go to neighborhood meetings.
I would be surprised if someone doesn't monitor the site for information and ideas but I bet it's no more used than any other source of public information. I bet the mayor has someone documenting everything that's sent to him on his number for the same reason.
The more data points you have the more you can get an idea what the public wants.
flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:02 pm
I would be surprised if someone doesn't monitor the site for information and ideas but I bet it's no more used than any other source of public information. I bet the mayor has someone documenting everything that's sent to him on his number for the same reason.
The more data points you have the more you can get an idea what the public wants.
Absolutely Im sure it just to check on every once in awhile same as historic KC. They might use our ideas, but I’m sure how seriously they are received is correlated to the effort we put in. If we came up with costs analysis and renderings they would probably treat it a lot more seriously than just saying I want X
