Capping the Loop

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
earthling
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by earthling »

Whatever % Cordish contributes to the cap, they should have the right to allocate that % to private use. However they don't have to be a dick about it and allow for more public use than 'their share'.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by beautyfromashes »

earthling wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:56 pm Whatever % Cordish contributes to the cap, they should have the right to allocate that % to private use. However they don't have to be a dick about it and allow for more public use than 'their share'.
Totally disagree with this. They get more in the money spent than just the park land, being parkfront increases the value of all of their property and makes those units facing the park, instead of a loud highway, infinitely easier to rent. That's probably worth the money spent by itself with no land designated to them. Of course, I know their spokesman on here will disagree and argue the POV for pages.
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normalthings
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:07 am
earthling wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:56 pm Whatever % Cordish contributes to the cap, they should have the right to allocate that % to private use. However they don't have to be a dick about it and allow for more public use than 'their share'.
Totally disagree with this. They get more in the money spent than just the park land, being parkfront increases the value of all of their property and makes those units facing the park, instead of a loud highway, infinitely easier to rent. That's probably worth the money spent by itself with no land designated to them. Of course, I know their spokesman on here will disagree and argue the POV for pages.
I’m not affiliated with Cordish but I too disagree that they stand to make tens of millions more by having a park.
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by WoodDraw »

It’ll increase their value, for sure, but it’ll also increase the value of a lot of places. It takes me a few minutes to walk down main to here. I find it unlikely they’ll be able raise rents enough to offset whatever they are asked to contribute.

I’m actually sympathetic to cordish here. I don’t think it’s right to ask them to pay for it and get nothing. Why shouldn’t I contribute too then?

But I also want an open park. Perhaps there is a compromise where cordish residents would get free dog park access and cordish would get the ability to hold events there a few times a year, but there aren’t resident only segments of the park.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by beautyfromashes »

normalthings wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:37 am I’m not affiliated with Cordish but I too disagree that they stand to make tens of millions more by having a park.
So, if Cordish pays 50% of the cost they should get to block off 50% of the park?! The point wasn’t that they should have to pay ALL of it, it was that they get value beyond just access to the percentage of land they control.
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normalthings
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:53 am
normalthings wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:37 am I’m not affiliated with Cordish but I too disagree that they stand to make tens of millions more by having a park.
So, if Cordish pays 50% of the cost they should get to block off 50% of the park?! The point wasn’t that they should have to pay ALL of it, it was that they get value beyond just access to the percentage of land they control.
I disagree on this. I think you are over estimating the benefit.
being parkfront increases the value of all of their property and makes those units facing the park, instead of a loud highway, infinitely easier to rent. That's probably worth the money spent by itself with no land designated to them.
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by flyingember »

Let's say there's 800 apartments between 2-4 light in the end (I'm assuming four is mixed use)

That's 800 units to cover the cost.
Say a cap lets them raise rent by $100/month on average both as an amenity and reducing noise on the balconies.

That's $960,000 per year in additional rent that's pure profit.

There's no way they make tens of millions off a cap. But remember, it's not just about a net gain, it's also about reducing the risk of a loss. The cap can be what they see as needed to fill units quicker as they empty.

A ~5% empty rate can be in the realm of $1-3 million per year in lost revenue. When you have hundreds of units small changes in occupancy result in big changes in money coming in.
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by DColeKC »

beautyfromashes wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:07 am
earthling wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:56 pm Whatever % Cordish contributes to the cap, they should have the right to allocate that % to private use. However they don't have to be a dick about it and allow for more public use than 'their share'.
Totally disagree with this. They get more in the money spent than just the park land, being parkfront increases the value of all of their property and makes those units facing the park, instead of a loud highway, infinitely easier to rent. That's probably worth the money spent by itself with no land designated to them. Of course, I know their spokesman on here will disagree and argue the POV for pages.
I’m not their spokesman. If I were, I’d say a lot less or nothing at all on here.

No one argues that it won’t increase the value of their property but not enough to justify such a major investment. There’s several factors that make the money worth it. I don’t think they’ll raise rent just because there’s a park either.

Believe it or not, they know how important a nice downtown park would be for everyone living around the area. Even for those who will never spend a dollar that gets back to them. They’re going to be landlords and property owners for decades and decades in KC. What’s best for downtown is best for them. There’s more than a park they’re willing to invest in as well.
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by moderne »

The Medici of KC? Or the non-discriminatory JC Nichols Co? Or a Crown Center Redevelopment Corp that is better at urbanity?
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by DaveKCMO »

https://cityscenekc.com/south-loop-link ... nt-hinder/
“We are working to advance the design of the project to a shovel-ready status, competitively positioning us for future infrastructure investment opportunities,” Dietrich said.
The article says Baltimore will be replaced this weekend, but MoDOT just delayed that a week (probably due to rain).
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normalthings
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by normalthings »

Decking the South Loop is considered a long-range proposal, perhaps within the next 10 years, but that timetable could be accelerated if the Biden Administration is successful in winning approval of its massive infrastructure bill now before Congress.

“We are working to advance the design of the project to a shovel-ready status, competitively positioning us for future infrastructure investment opportunities,” Dietrich said.

He said next steps include re-engaging local, state and federal officials; securing funds for engineering and environmental studies; determining ongoing maintenance and operating costs, and analyzing its economic development benefits.
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normalthings
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by normalthings »

Image

Map of the combined projects. Jets are being put on this ahead of potential stimulus $$. Notice proposed buildings over the south loop itself
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by KCPowercat »

Great to see thenplan going to Oak. The 4 blocks felt incomplete.

Pretty cool.seeing it all together. Thanks!
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by Riverite »

normalthings wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:18 pm Image

Map of the combined projects. Jets are being put on this ahead of potential stimulus $$. Notice proposed buildings over the south loop itself
I like the north loop removal shown too!
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by DaveKCMO »

I thought we weren't allowed to build private property on top of MoDOT right of way?
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by Sani »

normalthings wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:18 pm Image

Map of the combined projects. Jets are being put on this ahead of potential stimulus $$. Notice proposed buildings over the south loop itself
I'm getting a broken image icon. Can you provide a link?
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by swid »

https://i.imgur.com/xm4mqVC.png

(FWIW, if you're on a VPN, that may be why it's not loading for you; my corporate VPN blocks imgur.)
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by Sani »

A-ha! Yep, that must be why.

Er, I mean, why would I be visiting KCRag on my work computer, which I only use for work-related purposes?
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normalthings
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 12:46 pm I thought we weren't allowed to build private property on top of MoDOT right of way?
I thought so as well. If KCMO “owns” a tower that Cordish builds, it isn’t a private structure is it? Pretty common for the city and Port KC to own projects they are incentivizing.

This map is from a 2021 document.
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FangKC
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Re: Capping the Loop

Post by FangKC »

Perhaps that deck building is a parking garage.
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