Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by kcteen »

ACLU is alleging discrimination against Cordsih Co. for their dress code policy at fourth street live! in Louisville. Personally, I dont think its discrimination at all. I hope they block off the street in Kansas City often and have a dress code - it would make the place more inviting.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... _protest_1
LOUISVILLE, Ky. - The ACLU is objecting to a ban on sports jerseys, sleeveless shirts and backward baseball caps in Louisville's new nightclub district, saying the dress code is biased against blacks and poor people.



The city has given the developer of the month-old Fourth Street Live power to enforce its dress code three nights a week during special events along the block-long stretch restaurants, bars and shops. During those nights, the city street is blocked off, and bouncers decide who does or doesn't meet the dress code.


"If the city is going to turn over a public street to a private entity, they need to make sure it remains open to the public," said American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites) of Kentucky executive director Beth Wilson, who wore a cap backwards during a protest Monday in the district.


The Rev. Louis Coleman led about a dozen protesters in the demonstration.


"When you look at the team shirts, the names on those shirts, it's an urban thing, it's an inner-city thing being restricted," said Coleman, who is black.


Coleman and his protesters met with representatives of developer Cordish Co. on Monday and offered a compromise that would reverse the ban on many items, except sagging pants, bare midriffs and "gang-related clothing."


Unless a settlement is reached, Coleman said, anyone offended by the dress code should take their money elsewhere.


Zed Smith, who manages properties for Cordish, said the dress code has nothing to do with race. "It's not just the jerseys we're singling out," Smith said. "It's a range of dress that's acceptable."


Also, Smith said, the company is within its rights to enforce a minimum standard of dress on nights when the street is blocked off.


Fourth Street Live, a $75 million project, replaces a former indoor mall that blocked off the street. The area used to be Louisville's central downtown shopping district before the advent of suburban malls, and has been the target of a number of revitalization efforts.


Jay Blanton, a spokesman for Mayor Jerry Abramson, said the permit granted to the Fourth Street Live developer is no different from those given to other groups that use public property for special events. He added that there has been no evidence so far of discrimination.


Tim West, who is black, said he was asked to leave Fourth Street Live when it opened last month because his shorts were too long and he was wearing a baseball-style jersey. He said he has no intention of returning for special events.


"I'm done until they figure out what they want to do," West said. "If you look presentable, there shouldn't be a problem."

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by chrizow »

if Power and Light Live has a dress code like this, i won't go there. that is so ridiculous.

if this project is supposed to be an urban neighborhood/attraction, the developer shouldn't be able to just pick and choose certain "looks" to prohibit. it's clear that this particular dress code is targeted at those with an "urban" look, which 90% of the time will be black people. i'd also be willing to bet that their enforcement of this code would be discriminatory. if my Suburban White Dad showed up at 4th Street Live with a Royals jersey on or something, they are not going to turn him away. if a young black or hispanic male showed up with a similar outfit (albeit with baggier jeans) he will be turned away.

bars and clubs do this all the time. "no jerseys or hats." 99% of the time it is a reaction to too many black folks showing up. it's not hard to figure out.

thumbs down for Cordish on this one. don't bring that BS to kansas city, please.

"more inviting?" are you kidding me? inviting for whom? apparently not for those who choose to wear jerseys. it's only "more inviting" for scaredy-cat suburbadroids who clutch their purses and place their hand over the wallet every time they see a black person dressed in a hip-hop style. if THAT'S what Cordish has in store for our district, i hope it fails.

our downtown redevelopment should be welcoming and "inviting" to all, not just whitebread suburbadroids hoping to get a taste of the whitebread suburbadroid lifestyle in downtown KC. those people can stay at 135th and Quivira.

(btw, if our project is going to be developed with this mentality, it WILL fail. people are not going to flock downtown to get the same sort of experience they can get in lee's summit. if it's going to be downtown, make it urban, funky, and unique.)
Last edited by chrizow on Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by Critical_Mass »

I agree with Chirizow, this is total BS. I'm not up-to-date on the P&L Live project...are the public streets going to be turned into private hands? I hope not. This is taking gentrification to the streets.
What if someone buys or rents a loft in this district, and they happen to be wearing a sports jersey one night? Will Cordish not let them in their home?

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by QueSi2Opie »

chrizow wrote:thumbs down for Cordish on this one. don't bring that BS to kansas city, please.
I agree! I wear my Guinness cap backwards 75% of the time. Plus, what about the people celebrating the Chiefs and Royals at a Sports Bar (ESPNZone) on game day?!?! We need to voice our concern to Cordish before they develop here! As far as dress code, they should focus more on banning baggy pants with underwear showing and gang-related rags hangin' from pockets or tied under ballcaps.
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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by chrizow »

they shouldn't "ban" any sort of clothing.

it's not like the place will become gang territory unless a ban is issued. and it's not like a ban will prevent ardent gangstas from going there anyway and doing whatever they want just outside the district.

it's better to not issue bans at all and let the place develop its own character, than put a new multi-block district in with a pre-determined idea of who is and is not welcome. 98% of those who dress in the hip-hop style are harmless youth participating in a trend. Cordish is telling them "stay home, the middle class white people won't come if you are around."

not the message that a huge downtown development in KC should send, IMO. it will backfire, if nothing else. as soon as Joe JoCo hears on FOX4 that "no backwards hats or jerseys or gang colors" are allowed, he's likely to assume the place has a gang issue and he should just stay at home.

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by trailerkid »

I would suggest people contact Cordish http://www.cordish.com/ and let them know if you don't support using taxpayer money to discriminate against minorities.

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by QueSi2Opie »

chrizow wrote:they shouldn't "ban" any sort of clothing.

it's not like the place will become gang territory unless a ban is issued. and it's not like a ban will prevent ardent gangstas from going there anyway and doing whatever they want just outside the district.

it's better to not issue bans at all and let the place develop its own character, than put a new multi-block district in with a pre-determined idea of who is and is not welcome. 98% of those who dress in the hip-hop style are harmless youth participating in a trend. Cordish is telling them "stay home, the middle class white people won't come if you are around."

not the message that a huge downtown development in KC should send, IMO. it will backfire, if nothing else. as soon as Joe JoCo hears on FOX4 that "no backwards hats or jerseys or gang colors" are allowed, he's likely to assume the place has a gang issue and he should just stay at home.
While I'd like to agree with you, Chriz, I don't want the place to end up like Bannister Mall, Ward Parkway Center, or Westport after hours. Certain types of people scare away customers who would otherwise be spending money at these establishments. If Joe JoCo and Nancy Northland stop spendin' their money at KC Live, the restaurants and businesses will lose money and some may move out. Unfortunately, poor inner-city youth don't have the cash to spend and support these places. They can still come to KC Live (before 9pm), but they jus' need to pull their pants up past their underwear and leave the black, red, and blue rags at home.

I don't think KC Live will ever become "gangland", but some people might get the impression that it's becoming that way.

Anyhow, they shouldn't ban sports jerseys, backward hats, or baggy "clown" clothes.
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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by chrizow »

i just went on Cordish's website for the first time and looked at their portfolio.

:shock:

:(

:x

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by trailerkid »

QueSi2Opie wrote:
chrizow wrote:they shouldn't "ban" any sort of clothing.

it's not like the place will become gang territory unless a ban is issued. and it's not like a ban will prevent ardent gangstas from going there anyway and doing whatever they want just outside the district.

it's better to not issue bans at all and let the place develop its own character, than put a new multi-block district in with a pre-determined idea of who is and is not welcome. 98% of those who dress in the hip-hop style are harmless youth participating in a trend. Cordish is telling them "stay home, the middle class white people won't come if you are around."

not the message that a huge downtown development in KC should send, IMO. it will backfire, if nothing else. as soon as Joe JoCo hears on FOX4 that "no backwards hats or jerseys or gang colors" are allowed, he's likely to assume the place has a gang issue and he should just stay at home.
While I'd like to agree with you, Chriz, I don't want the place to end up like Bannister Mall, Ward Parkway Center, or Westport after hours. Certain types of people scare away customers who would otherwise be spending money at these establishments. If Joe JoCo and Nancy Northland stop spendin' their money at KC Live, the restaurants and businesses will lose money and some may move out. Unfortunately, poor inner-city youth don't have the cash to spend and support these places. They can still come to KC Live (before 9pm), but they jus' need to pull their pants up past their underwear and leave the black, red, and blue rags at home.

I don't think KC Live will ever become "gangland", but some people might get the impression that it's becoming that way.

Anyhow, they shouldn't ban sports jerseys, backward hats, or baggy "clown" clothes.
Ever heard the phrase, "To get comfortable, sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone." Urban environments are about DIVERSITY. That means EVERYONE and their ideas are not only tolerated, but an integral part of the fabric of the city.

Please don't compare the city to malls out in the 'burbs. Those malls are vacant due to poor management and closed minded white people afraid to venture out of their comfort zone.

Que, how would you feel if the dress code had a stereotypical anti-gay slant? No tight muscle T-shirts. No D&G, A/X or Diesel. No mullets on women. No makeup on men.

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Post by chrizow »

trailerkid wrote: No tight muscle T-shirts. No D&G, A/X or Diesel. No mullets on women. No makeup on men.
i'd have to stay at home!!! i wouldn't be able to go high-five my buds at the ESPNZone or look down chicks' blouses at Paddy O'Testosterone Rootin 'n Tootin Bar 'n Grill!!!!!

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by QueSi2Opie »

chrizow wrote:i just went on Cordish's website for the first time and looked at their portfolio.

:shock:

:(

:x
Cordish is an East Coast company...so I doubt we'll get a Midwest crappy development featuring a Walmart next to Hard Rock Cafe. We're gettin' more of the Power Plant Live concept that they have in Baltimore, Louisville and Houston.
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Post by chrizow »

i was looking at the Bayou Place and 4th Street Live!

:shock:

:(

:x

i hope it succeeds. but i doubt i'll ever go there if it is as square as those places.

on topic, i wonder if Cordish tries to keep Baltimore and Houston's black populace from visiting their developments, or if that stellar attitude is reserved solely for Louisville.
Last edited by chrizow on Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by QueSi2Opie »

trailerkid wrote:Ever heard the phrase, "To get comfortable, sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone." Urban environments are about DIVERSITY. That means EVERYONE and their ideas are not only tolerated, but an integral part of the fabric of the city.

Please don't compare the city to malls out in the 'burbs. Those malls are vacant due to poor management and closed minded white people afraid to venture out of their comfort zone.

Que, how would you feel if the dress code had a stereotypical anti-gay slant? No tight muscle T-shirts. No D&G, A/X or Diesel. No mullets on women. No makeup on men.
Listen tk, I don't think people want to see the back of some dude's underwear while walkin' with their children in public! Also, colored rags are gang affiliated 90% of the time. Like I said before, they should allow everything else from baggy clothes to white-trash sleeveless shirts. This isn't about race either, I see a ton of white suburban kids sportin' the hip-hop gangsta "clown" style.
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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by LyRiCaL GanGsTa »

gheeeeshhhh, you liberal, card-carrying ACLU members. I don't mind a dress-code. Nobody is going to discriminate against color and it appears stereotypical to me that you guys would infer that blacks 'wear certain types of clothes"... that in and of itself is racist.... LoL

Businesses have a right to serve who they want, as long as race isn't an issue and dress code has always been a right for businesses to discriminate. Do you guys want to be on a date eating a nice dinner and have a homeless guy that hasn't bathed in weeks sit 4 feet upwind from you? HYPOCRITES!
Last edited by LyRiCaL GanGsTa on Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by QueSi2Opie »

chrizow wrote:on topic, i wonder if Cordish tries to keep Baltimore and Houston's black populace from visiting their developments, or if that stellar attitude is reserved solely for Louisville.
I read a sign at Bayou Place sayin' that they had a dress code that was strictly enforced. However, I think these dress codes apply to large events such as outdoor concerts and after hours drinking. As far as the design of P&L Live, I expect a bunch of three to four story buildings (brick and concrete) filled w/ shops, dining and entertainment.
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Post by QueSi2Opie »

LyRiCaL GanGsTa wrote:Nobody is going to discriminate against color and it appears stereotypical to me that you guys would infer that blacks 'wear certain types of clothes"... that in and of itself is racist.... LoL
:lol: I agree, LG!!!

BTW, don't catagorize Liberals because it is the Conservatives that are ALL the SAME! [-X
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Post by Critical_Mass »

But the streets are public property and should remain that way. Individual businesses can do whatever they want within the law as far as dress codes, etc. That's their right, but you can't take that crap to the streets.

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Post by trailerkid »

QueSi2Opie wrote: Listen tk, I don't think people want to see the back of some dude's underwear while walkin' with their children in public!
You're right. Anything that is not appropriate for children to see in public is hearby BANNED!!!
QueSi2Opie wrote:Also, colored rags are gang affiliated 90% of the time. Like I said before, they should allow everything else from baggy clothes to white-trash sleeveless shirts. This isn't about race either, I see a ton of white suburban kids sportin' the hip-hop gangsta "clown" style.
Are you the fashion police now? Who are you or Cordish for that matter to tell people what they should wear? If there is gang violence in KC...let the KCPD handle that and keep out of it. Last time I checked there were no laws against wearing baggy clothes and rags out in public. The thing isn't even built yet and you guys are telling us who we should keep out so it doesn't end up like Bannister Mall. Get out ot the 'burbs and come back down to Earth.

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by cdschofield »

Where do you draw the line? There are many bars that enforce dress codes depending on what clientele they want to attract or trouble they want to head off. The choice probably comes down to if you want to allow people to drink throughout the district. If you don't want Cordish to have any say so in what goes on outside the bars in the district then I doubt if they will pursue a festival type liquor license for the district.

I bet Cordish would rather have a well dressed, young, single, black, junior executive spending his money in P & L Live than a young, white,suburban, college drop out, gangster wannabe loitering outside the bars in P & L Live. I just don't buy the stereotype that all blacks dress like gang bangers.

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Cordish in news - 4th street live! ACLU & dress code

Post by trailerkid »

cdschofield wrote:I just don't buy the stereotype that all blacks dress like gang bangers.
I don't either and I don't think that is the crux of anyone's argument.

This is my stance:
It is not legal for a private developer to enforce a dress code on a public street.

It is wrong to take MoDESA tax money to build an entertainment district and not let citizens of Missouri enter. They paid for it...this ain't Leawood South Country Club.

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