The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
kansasfarmboy

The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by kansasfarmboy »

Posted on Sun, May. 09, 2004



JOE LEDFORD/The Kansas City Star
“I want more out of Union Station. It could be great,â€
Last edited by kansasfarmboy on Sun May 09, 2004 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by KCK »

Poor sad Union Station. At least Wyandotte County was smart enough not to vote to raise its taxes to support this bankrupt misguided mess. With this kind of record, no way will I vote my tax dollars toward any project outside of KCK.
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by Slappy the Wang »

I don't know about Union Station FIST FIGHTING for its' life, but am confident that many taxpayers GOT FISTED for Union Station. How about changing the name to Onion Station and re-use te facility as a museum dedicated to the Vidalia? I'm confident it would attract more Shriners, Lions Club's, elderly coots, etc than the current use has seen since it's re-opening.
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kansasfarmboy

The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by kansasfarmboy »

Slappy the Wang wrote:I don't know about Union Station FIST FIGHTING for its' life, but am confident that many taxpayers GOT FISTED for Union Station. How about changing the name to Onion Station and re-use te facility as a museum dedicated to the Vidalia? I'm confident it would attract more Shriners, Lions Club's, elderly coots, etc than the current use has seen since it's re-opening.
Or perhaps a BINGO hall in there as well , or as they are called now multi use facilty areas..... areas like banquet rooms in hotels.... but then that takes it into the service industry
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by LyRiCaL GanGsTa »

Why are they hiring "museum experts", what the heck is Turner White supposed to be? and how much are they paying the idiot? Hire a bookeeper and fire the punk and hire someone that knows how to run a museum. As for the 'Railroad museum' idea, that is a joke.... nobody is going to visit that twice... Let's line up a casino company and get this thing done right, add a world class aquarium and the casino could have REAL live jazz and an urban edge. It would build a world class hotel and add vibrancy and $$ to the neighborhood.
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Post by Slappy the Wang »

If they would just have interesting exhibits, like driftwood art or a traveling cemetary of past flea circus standouts.

They started out big with T-Rex & Mammoths, then had a few pieces of the TItanic...both were mildly interesting. Then they plummeted last year when I stood in line to see THE CONSTITUTION only to find out it was one of only a few licensed & authentic REPLICAS of the Constitution.

The place is a joke. Doze it and build a state of the art McDonalds and Quick Trip for the IRS!
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by kansasfarmboy »

LyRiCaL GanGsTa wrote:Why are they hiring "museum experts", what the heck is Turner White supposed to be? and how much are they paying the idiot? Hire a bookeeper and fire the punk and hire someone that knows how to run a museum. As for the 'Railroad museum' idea, that is a joke.... nobody is going to visit that twice... Let's line up a casino company and get this thing done right, add a world class aquarium and the casino could have REAL live jazz and an urban edge. It would build a world class hotel and add vibrancy and $$ to the neighborhood.

Welcome to "KC POLITICS AS USUAL"

THey wont just fire him, He will SUE or make it a RACIAL issue.

Kansas city Politics as usual!!!!
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by KCDevin »

well, we will develop it again one day in the next few years when downtown is more active. this is just a minor setback when you look at the full picture, well, it isn't even a setback, its just an oops scenario.
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Post by KCPowercat »

kfb...kansas city politics? Isn't this on that board of directors listed?
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Post by tat2kc »

One of the big selling points during bistate was that KC govt would NOT be involved with this project. At that time, I thought that was a good idea, given the city's track record. Sadly, the management of the station and Science City was almost as bad as the city.

One of the biggest mistakes they made was the assumption that the revenue from Science City would be enough to not only run the museum, but also fully fund the maintenance and utilites and day to day operations of the massive Union Station. They knew full well that no science museum in the nation exists without taxpayer support. Someone should have known that the utilites alone for this structure would be astronomical.

In order to recieve public support, we need to know what the total cost of maintaining the Union Station historic building is, separate from the costs associated with Science City. I think people would support giving support for maintaining the building, if that could be done under a different governing board than the Science Museum. Maintaining Union Station as a historic building, open to the public is a good idea. Science City, the restaurants and other attractions need to be rent paying tenants, with their own separate revenue stream that is not tied to the historic building.
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by kansasfarmboy »

KCPowercat wrote:kfb...kansas city politics? Isn't this on that board of directors listed?
Why Yes its got its own board and such as the managing body, dont misunderstand me im not saying the fellow running it now works for the city ...

Im saying the city controls the PURSE strings currently , as the whole board, and folks involved have admitted complete failure (more on this shortly) by failure not that they didnt try but that they are in dire straits AND, cannot make it without MORE tax money and awaiting Kay Barnes to announce a plan to HELP them.... while this ultimately lies in the hands of taxpayers, right now they are relying on the city controlling the purse strings by waiting for that announcement ..


Now back to the straits...

2 weeks ago a rumor was started and discussed here , about plywood being bid , to board up the place this incensed a lot of folks.... I then posted what I heard that ch 5 was mistaken m, and corrected their statement ..

Well Toby cook at the 5am news this morning , stated that , The original rumor was CORRECT and furthermore that (whatever the current dude in charges name is I forgot it) stated that they were taking bids on lumber as a WORST case scenario and they set that much money aside for that if it comes to it ..

whether this is a scare tactic or not , I dont know a lot of you folks here are much more knowledgeable on the issue of how U.S. was financed ,, Im just repeating what I heard....

did anyone else hear about the lumber ? And do they believe it or that its a scare tactic to get money fast?
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by QueSi2Opie »

Change it into a Flea Market...it will fit well w/ the Kansas City mentality.

It's sad that this city cannot support a science museum. What's even more sad is that we let these idiots create a disasterous one.
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Post by KCPowercat »

the city can support a good science museum....S.C. needs to be better. Also when they were planning this deal they needed to be realistic and understand it would take constant financial help...they sold the voters that it could support itself, it obviously can't...and doesn't anywhere else in the country.


Increase the property tax to support it but with that, new management, make science city free, fill Union Station with other addon attractions that charge that can benefit from a lot of additional traffic due to S.C. being free.
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kansasfarmboy

The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by kansasfarmboy »

KCPowercat wrote:the city can support a good science museum....S.C. needs to be better. Also when they were planning this deal they needed to be realistic and understand it would take constant financial help...they sold the voters that it could support itself, it obviously can't...and doesn't anywhere else in the country.


Increase the property tax to support it but with that, new management, make science city free, fill Union Station with other addon attractions that charge that can benefit from a lot of additional traffic due to S.C. being free.
I am not trying to start anything with you , but I do disagree with you here , KC....

The example I have is the chicago museum of science and industry which is completely self sufficient as far as taxes and the public government is concerned AS well as the tax situation. One reason is HUGE donations ALL the time such as this one

http://www.msichicago.org/scrapbook/scr ... visit.html

it doesnt tell the whole story , but I do remember it , bill gates and other companies , give HUGE stipends annually to keep the museum alive I have not seen ANY requests for taxation of the public for this place. Quite the contrary. When I lived there and as far as i know now , they have , patron appreciation day every wed. Where general admission is free for ALL....

it is a little high to get in during the week but its well worth it , for the few years i lived there and every trip i make back , its like going to a new place each time . the curators keepthat place rolling If I remember correctly I want on a saturday last year , and it was 10 dollars for adults. (I could be wrong)

Now granted i know union station is not the chicago museum, But I feel and have ALWAYS fealt that it COULD be, when the project was first announced thats exactly what I envisiones and personally , i have been continually dissapointed and disheartened ever, since. and I have only been ONE time... when i got some free passes, from work.

again , sorry not trying to call you out or flame ya

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Post by KCPowercat »

Good example and there are obvious exceptions...I guess I meant more overall. Also should I say some sort of outside help, which would include donations. One of S.C. big problems is no big foundation took them under their wing to keep them going....they weren't any rich guys pet project.

I'm all for doing something like STL does with their Children's museum....make it free, people will flock in even if you have nothing more than a see saw and a telescope. Then you can put things in other parts of the station that could really get a lot of help with all the foot traffic a free attraction brings.

Good management would solve alot too.
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by kansasfarmboy »

KCPowercat wrote:the city can support a good science museum....S.C. needs to be better. Also when they were planning this deal they needed to be realistic and understand it would take constant financial help...they sold the voters that it could support itself, it obviously can't...and doesn't anywhere else in the country.


Increase the property tax to support it but with that, new management, make science city free, fill Union Station with other addon attractions that charge that can benefit from a lot of additional traffic due to S.C. being free.


http://www.chicagohs.org/mippr.html

I located some of the information i was searching for ....

ALL of the museums combined in chicago, only got state grants totalling 36 million , but look at the attendance and what they give back to the public...

Now I also realize that these are ESTABLISHED museums of over 25 years, But this is what I envisioned with union station/ when they proposed the bistate,,, now with bistate II they want tons more for something they dont even know if it will make it ... there has to be some guarantee or BOND!!!

Chicago's 2002 Museum Attendance Holds Steady
Over One Million School Children Visit the Museums in 2002

Chicago, IL – Despite the significant downturn in travel and tourism last year, attendance at Chicago’s Museums In the Park (MIP) reached more than 7.5 million visitors last year, which is nearly identical to attendance levels in 2001.

Museums In the Park is comprised of institutions located on Chicago Park District land and include The Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum, The Art Institute of Chicago, Chicago Historical Society, DuSable Museum of African American History, The Field Museum, Mexican Fine Arts Center Museum, Museum of Science and Industry, Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum and the John G. Shedd Aquarium.

“Our museums were extremely pleased to have attained stable attendance figures, which far exceeded our expectations and, once again, validated the important role our cultural institutions play for visitors and residents alike,â€
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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by TheDude »

Which raises a great point on BiState1—now the power elite is asking KCMO property tax payers ONLY to ante up and help cover the operating shortfall due to an aggressive economic impact study (thank you MRI) and shortfall in implementation. There has been no return on investment with Bi1 and the issue was raised that we should not just look at $$ ROI; I agree with this point, however, if it can’t even cover it’s operating costs (forget about return on investment) there is something fiscally awry with a request to throw more money at a ship that is taking on water. Without a MAJOR restructuring of the events, venues, retailers, etc at Union Station it will always be facing a fiscal crisis and could become a major problem moving forward (and I don’t buy the premise that 5,000 IRS workers are going to keep it floating operationally by eating in the food court and buying fudge on their lunch breaks). this ship is taking on water fast......

The response by our lackluster leadership is always a Band-Aid fix (aka, Kemper glass) rather than look at the long-term solution (as with Bi2 and putting more money in the K, not to mention that Arrowhead is always sold out so why in the hell do they need $177M, doesn’t King Carl have enough fur already?). RE: the Bi2 issue, one only needs to point to Bi1 regarding how careful we, as a REGION, need to be when considering these issues. We need to focus on the long-term solution as a REGION rather than short term fixes that we will be revisiting within the next decade. And then there’s the OP Arena…………………….

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The star AGAIN Kc Landmark FIST fighting for its life ....

Post by kansasfarmboy »

KCPowercat wrote:Good example and there are obvious exceptions...I guess I meant more overall. Also should I say some sort of outside help, which would include donations. One of S.C. big problems is no big foundation took them under their wing to keep them going....they weren't any rich guys pet project.

I'm all for doing something like STL does with their Children's museum....make it free, people will flock in even if you have nothing more than a see saw and a telescope. Then you can put things in other parts of the station that could really get a lot of help with all the foot traffic a free attraction brings.

Good management would solve alot too.

With the bill gates funding, you ought to see the computer evolution exhibit, partially funded by southwesterd bell AND bill gates they have one of every kind of cell phone from the 30s up,to present , AND with computers a lot of bill gates personal , projects (on loan of course) from when he built his computers and software products , just to see computers from the mid 60s UP to present , is astounding its on the 2nd floor, andtakes almost an hour to go through by itself , with interactive projects that are HANDS ON, you can record a message on an edison simulated phone, and listen to it back .... Just makes for something amazing
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Post by KCPowercat »

agreed, asking for a property tax increase if no changes are proposed for U.S. is folly and I would hope it would fail by a long shot. Adding a train museum to the end of the station will not do it either.

Get somebody in here that knows what they are doing and do it right this time and KCMo will support it with a property tax increase.....Thanks to the surrounding counties for tax yourself to get back into good shape but I really don't see it needed on Bi-State II....taxing people twice for the same thing when they don't "own" it could spell major trouble for the whole Bi-State vote.

I would like to see this board of directors taken to task a bit in the media....everybody wants to throw KCMO under the bus, let's get the mayor of Olathe on TV and explain what's being going on in that boardroom.
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Post by KCK »

DeadManWalking wrote:Poor sad Union Station. At least Wyandotte County was smart enough not to vote to raise its taxes to support this bankrupt misguided mess. With this kind of record, no way will I vote my tax dollars toward any project outside of KCK.
Did no one read my post? Where are the flames? I guess you guys are starting to see the truth.
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