Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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normalthings
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by normalthings »

Design-Build RFP for the redevelopment is out. These are some snippets that the forum may enjoy.
The Plaza is expected to follow the grade of the existing sidewalks and allow for at-grade pedestrian access. The goal of the Plaza is to make it a usable urban park that can be both visually and physically accessed from the road and sidewalk.

c. The Plaza should have public internet/Wi-Fi.
d. The Plaza must have adequate lighting to have a safe environment at night.
f. The Project must include sidewalks on all four sides where at a minimum there would be an unobstructed 8-foot wide pathway for ease of pedestrian traffic. The sidewalks must include the 8-foot wide clear pathway and the required streetlights, street trees and other amenities.
i. Within the next three years, KCATA intends to install a bus stop along 12th Street.

4) Event Plaza. The Event Plaza should be a flexible space composed primarily of durable hardscape materials and some minimal landscape features that do not limit its overall use. The Event Plaza will be the site for large events, such as festivals, corporate events and performances. It may also be the site for any large-scale temporary installations, such as Public Art or an ice rink. The Event Plaza should be load-bearing and accessible by vehicles for load-in and load-out. The site should be able to accommodate tents, temporary stages and barriers. The Event Plaza should have nearby access to event power (225 amps), duplex receptacles, and hose bibs for power washing. Nearby staging areas for food trucks and/or kiosks should have access to power. The Event Plaza would preferably be in direct proximity to the Event Lawn. Storm drainage must stay above the Roof/\Lid, and not penetrate the Roof/Lid.

5) Program Spaces. Program Spaces will be activated by the Plaza operator with games and social events. The area should accommodate considered uses - such as bocce, ping pong, foosball, chess/checkers, or a reading cart – as well as spontaneous uses, like picnics. The area may incorporate hard or softscape ground materials that are durable yet decorative, such as artificial turf, pavers, crushed granite (stone dust) and decorative concrete. Program Spaces should have access to duplex 20amp receptacles, water fountains and ample seating. Storm drainage must stay above the roof/lid, and not penetrate the roof/lid.

(2) Play Space. Successful and popular play structures today offer a level of adventure and managed risk for children. Within the parameters of safety codes for surfaces, fall zones, etc., elements such as climbing walls, slides, interactive water features, elevated walkways, and other play structures will be a significant draw for families to the Plaza and help make it a destination park. The play structures should appeal to youth from toddler-age up to middle grades. Depending on the type of structures, the Play Space does not necessarily need to be in an enclosed area. The Play Space will be an enclosed area with one entrance (two maximum). Artificial turf and padded surfaces enhance both safety and aesthetics. With water features, care should be taken to avoid surfaces that can become very hot in the sun, as many children will have bare feet. The Play Space should be in close proximity to or include a family restroom. It should include areas of shade, access to duplex 20amp receptacles, and ample built-in and movable seating for both adults and kids.

4) Food & Beverage Facility. A full-service restaurant is not intended for the Plaza, though the Plaza will be equipped to offer a modest food and beverage program, i.e. a coffee, café or grab-and-go kiosk. The facility should meet the minimum requirements to be granted a liquor license, establishing the full Plaza as a liquor premise for larger events. The food and beverage facility may also be developed to accommodate the preparation and staging of catered events within the Plaza by in-house or external entities. The facility should be positioned near the right of way to service passersby as well as park patrons.

Concepts:

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langosta
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by langosta »

Active programming is really not something that I had thought of before. Anything done at BAP needs to be coordinated with the loop cap. I absolutely love the idea of an F&B space that serves passerbys and park goers. The current space at BAP has been shuttered for as long as I've been coming downtown. I would love to see some version of F&B at the loop cap park too
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DColeKC
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by DColeKC »

225 amps for event power means still bringing in one or two sizable generators for any decent sized events. One of my complaints in regards to these types of projects, there is never enough power on site to handle large events. 600 amp 3-phase service with a few disconnects should be the standard. The install is expensive but you’ll save eventually.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by KCPowercat »

Define a decent sized event that would need that power spec.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by flyingember »

KCPowercat wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:43 pm Define a decent sized event that would need that power spec.
The plaza art fair.

240 artist tents with lights and misc electronics, 26 food booths, two stages for bands using power all going at once plus various misc facilities

The food booths would be the biggest overall. Even 10 amps per tent would be half that amount and wouldn’t scratch the surface on commercial food equipment in the aggregate

LEDs dropped lighting requirements while electronics dramatically increased in use

Edit:
they give artists 600 watts each. At 120volts that’s 5 amps. So just the artists get 1200 amps total

600 amps isn’t that big. (600 240v three phase seems to be 2880 amps when it’s split into 120 circuits)
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:43 pm Define a decent sized event that would need that power spec.
225 amps may cut it strictly for vendor tents but start adding in food trucks etc, it goes quickly. Add a legit stage and sound system, you need 200 amps just for that and most is hogged up by audio equipment. If they ever do a stage with national acts the lighting requirements will be huge on top of the audio requirements.

I just feel it’s best to spend upfront to avoid renting large, expensive generators all the time.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by DColeKC »

Btw, when hired to consult on these types of projects, I always push for this type of power and usually don’t win. A rare victory for me was the latest phase recently completed in St Louis at Ballpark Village.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by KCPowercat »

DColeKC wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:55 am
KCPowercat wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:43 pm Define a decent sized event that would need that power spec.
225 amps may cut it strictly for vendor tents but start adding in food trucks etc, it goes quickly. Add a legit stage and sound system, you need 200 amps just for that and most is hogged up by audio equipment. If they ever do a stage with national acts the lighting requirements will be huge on top of the audio requirements.

I just feel it’s best to spend upfront to avoid renting large, expensive generators all the time.
Cool thanks for the details. I doubt a large live music venue is planned for this space given the hotel neighbors
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normalthings
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:00 am Btw, when hired to consult on these types of projects, I always push for this type of power and usually don’t win. A rare victory for me was the latest phase recently completed in St Louis at Ballpark Village.
What is needed to run a few carnival rides?
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DColeKC
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by DColeKC »

I don't have hands on experience with Carnival rides. I've noticed some of them utilize gas engines but they have also have a network of power distro's at fairs with thick "feeder" cable running all over the place. I'd guess a standard carnival ride would need between 30-50 amps each.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by flyingember »

DColeKC wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:53 pm I don't have hands on experience with Carnival rides. I've noticed some of them utilize gas engines but they have also have a network of power distro's at fairs with thick "feeder" cable running all over the place. I'd guess a standard carnival ride would need between 30-50 amps each.
http://zavodanalog.com/en/ferris-wheel-30m.html

Looks like 33 amps at 240 for the ferris wheel alone, lights are extra

So if there's 20 rides pulling 240 at 30 amps each plus games, a 600 amp three phase circuit could be on the small side

many big carnivals seem to run their own generators, probably for this very reason
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crazywarriorman
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by crazywarriorman »

I didn't see it, but does anyone know if they are leaving the underground tunnels that connect the Marriott, Muehlbach Tower, and Aladdin Hotel to the Municipal Auditorium and Convention Center alone? I remember talking to clients who stayed in those hotels during conventions and they loved not having to deal with the weather and being able to seamlessly go from the convention to their room.
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normalthings
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by normalthings »

crazywarriorman wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:17 pm I didn't see it, but does anyone know if they are leaving the underground tunnels that connect the Marriott, Muehlbach Tower, and Aladdin Hotel to the Municipal Auditorium and Convention Center alone? I remember talking to clients who stayed in those hotels during conventions and they loved not having to deal with the weather and being able to seamlessly go from the convention to their room.
Yes they are
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by KCPowercat »

let's hope it's improved, it's pretty gross as is and really not a tunnel but just a side walking path around the perimeter of the garage.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by Walker »

Image

BAP redevelopment and parking concept just uploaded by the main consultant
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by KCPowercat »

As long as 3 is multi use with KCS I don't see this as being horrible. Seems dumb to take up a 2nd site though.

Edit. Fixed number screw up
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Critical_Mass
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by Critical_Mass »

#2 is next to the new ymca, behind the Marriott. #3 is the one adjacent to KCS. interesting that they show it connecting to BAP over the bartle loading docks.
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by Chris Stritzel »

Just... no. Choose one or the other or none at all.
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TheLastGentleman
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by TheLastGentleman »

The #2 site next to the Lyric YMCA is just mind boggling. It would be next door to the BNIM garage that's just 5 years old and across the street from the monstrous KCDC garage. The Library District should be renamed the Garage District.
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Re: Fantasy Retrofits: Barney Allis Plaza

Post by KCPowercat »

I don't understand the need for another site. Build the Broadway site bigger and be done with it. It's like we finally relinquished a site to be for parking (as long as it's mixed use) as a neighborhood so they just push and demand another site.
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