Downtown Baseball Stadium

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

flyingember wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:04 pm
Riverite wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:28 pm
We could also expand it over to the jail if that ends up getting replaced with something else
An entertainment district for a stadium isn't enough of a reason to tear down a historic structure

The jail is also the police HQ from 1938. It should become part of such a district, not be torn down
I think he was talking about the horrendous Jackson county jail. Please implode that thing!

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Riverite »

Or a serious redevelopment, it’s a good size

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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Riverite wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:58 pm
Or a serious redevelopment, it’s a good size
You think that’s possible? I figured between the tiny weird windows and insane interior demo costs, it would be a good explosion candidate.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Riverite »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:04 pm
Riverite wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:58 pm
Or a serious redevelopment, it’s a good size
You think that’s possible? I figured between the tiny weird windows and insane interior demo costs, it would be a good explosion candidate.
Absolutely no idea, would be better environmentally if it could.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dukuboy1 »

Just looking at the rendering, showing the aerial view. If you rotate the stadium counter clockwise, to make home facing for North than North East it would give you some better views from right field side of stadium and options to fill in the outfield with building views. The FED Courthouse might even be in view behind left field

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by StL_Dan »

dukuboy1 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:43 am
Just looking at the rendering, showing the aerial view. If you rotate the stadium counter clockwise, to make home facing for North than North East it would give you some better views from right field side of stadium and options to fill in the outfield with building views. The FED Courthouse might even be in view behind left field
Probably won’t be an option. See KC Powercat’s stadium orientation diagram a page or three ago.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Riverite »

The orientation is to keep sun out of the batters eyes right?

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by moderne »

Charlotte is about the closest the east loop has to a north-south arterial. Could it be tunneled under the complex? Doc friend purchased the bldng on the NE corner of 10th and Charlotte in 2018. Would his property be untouched? Guess he made a better investment than he ever imagined.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dukuboy1 »

StL_Dan wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 pm
dukuboy1 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:43 am
Just looking at the rendering, showing the aerial view. If you rotate the stadium counter clockwise, to make home facing for North than North East it would give you some better views from right field side of stadium and options to fill in the outfield with building views. The FED Courthouse might even be in view behind left field
Probably won’t be an option. See KC Powercat’s stadium orientation diagram a page or three ago.
I was looking at an aerial view on page 39 showing the stadium. It's fixed into a square lot, whihc I assume you could change the orientation to be more North than NE. You may have to change some of the other design elements, but the stadium can be situated that way. I believe it would not affect left handed batters

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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What's the bare minimum in terms of footprint? Seems Fenway in Boston has a tiny footprint. With the Missouri Board of Education Building being taken out, there are two square blocks immediately north of Sprint Center that are almost totally vacant. The location is ideal but is it large enough?

With those blocks being nearly empty so close to the heart of downtown KC, it's kind of an embarrassment to the city so a stadium would be a great fit so close to the entertainment district. Otherwise, East Village is the only other downtown location worth considering.

I hear about south of Truman, but where? The best locale was the parking lots south of 20th and the vacant land immediately to the north but much of that area is being developed with apartments now. I don't like the idea of going east. US 71 becomes a fairly formidable barrier between the stadium and it's really no longer a downtown stadium. To make a downtown stadium integrated with downtown and, hence, a benefit, it needs to be walkable in terms of distance as well as psychological barriers.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

Highlander wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:36 pm
What's the bare minimum in terms of footprint? Seems Fenway in Boston has a tiny footprint. With the Missouri Board of Education Building being taken out, there are two square blocks immediately north of Sprint Center that are almost totally vacant. The location is ideal but is it large enough?

With those blocks being nearly empty so close to the heart of downtown KC, it's kind of an embarrassment to the city so a stadium would be a great fit so close to the entertainment district. Otherwise, East Village is the only other downtown location worth considering.

I hear about south of Truman, but where? The best locale was the parking lots south of 20th and the vacant land immediately to the north but much of that area is being developed with apartments now. I don't like the idea of going east. US 71 becomes a fairly formidable barrier between the stadium and it's really no longer a downtown stadium. To make a downtown stadium integrated with downtown and, hence, a benefit, it needs to be walkable in terms of distance as well as psychological barriers.
That seams real tight. T-Mobile Center would barely fit. I think you need 4 blocks in DT KC.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dakkottadavviss »

Highlander wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:36 pm
What's the bare minimum in terms of footprint? Seems Fenway in Boston has a tiny footprint. With the Missouri Board of Education Building being taken out, there are two square blocks immediately north of Sprint Center that are almost totally vacant. The location is ideal but is it large enough?

With those blocks being nearly empty so close to the heart of downtown KC, it's kind of an embarrassment to the city so a stadium would be a great fit so close to the entertainment district. Otherwise, East Village is the only other downtown location worth considering.

I hear about south of Truman, but where? The best locale was the parking lots south of 20th and the vacant land immediately to the north but much of that area is being developed with apartments now. I don't like the idea of going east. US 71 becomes a fairly formidable barrier between the stadium and it's really no longer a downtown stadium. To make a downtown stadium integrated with downtown and, hence, a benefit, it needs to be walkable in terms of distance as well as psychological barriers.
The smallest ballpark footprint is Target Field at 8.5 acres, close to the size of the sprint center. Although ballparks are a little more square shaped than the sprint center (more rectangular site). A traditional urban ballpark would look like the Sprint Center + the two blocks east of it.

When it comes to the rumored sites for a ballpark. The P&L site is laughable, way too small. There’s the Sprint Center site, on the southeast corner of the loop. The ballpark would occupy all of the land east of the sprint center and south of the federal building. It would have pretty decent views of downtown if it’s facing north but it’s very constrained for the purposes of spinoff development. If they end up going downtown, it’ll be east village tho.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

dakkottadavviss wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:11 pm
Highlander wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:36 pm
What's the bare minimum in terms of footprint? Seems Fenway in Boston has a tiny footprint. With the Missouri Board of Education Building being taken out, there are two square blocks immediately north of Sprint Center that are almost totally vacant. The location is ideal but is it large enough?

With those blocks being nearly empty so close to the heart of downtown KC, it's kind of an embarrassment to the city so a stadium would be a great fit so close to the entertainment district. Otherwise, East Village is the only other downtown location worth considering.

I hear about south of Truman, but where? The best locale was the parking lots south of 20th and the vacant land immediately to the north but much of that area is being developed with apartments now. I don't like the idea of going east. US 71 becomes a fairly formidable barrier between the stadium and it's really no longer a downtown stadium. To make a downtown stadium integrated with downtown and, hence, a benefit, it needs to be walkable in terms of distance as well as psychological barriers.
The smallest ballpark footprint is Target Field at 8.5 acres, close to the size of the sprint center. Although ballparks are a little more square shaped than the sprint center (more rectangular site). A traditional urban ballpark would look like the Sprint Center + the two blocks east of it.

When it comes to the rumored sites for a ballpark. The P&L site is laughable, way too small. There’s the Sprint Center site, on the southeast corner of the loop. The ballpark would occupy all of the land east of the sprint center and south of the federal building. It would have pretty decent views of downtown if it’s facing north but it’s very constrained for the purposes of spinoff development. If they end up going downtown, it’ll be east village tho.
There are no rumored P&L locations just to be clear. I think we all know it's going in the east village but it's fun to dream.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

The four blocks in East Village are smaller than Target Fields site, you would have to bleed over into the half lots by the highway.

The IRS processing center is a very roomy site for a stadium. I love that idea but have no idea if the IRS site is still in heavy use or if the feds want to reuse it for other departments if it's not being used now.

The orientation on that site is fantastic for views, downtown, Kauffman, union station and the Liberty Memorial. What a great setting for concerts too.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by longviewmo »

shinatoo wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:49 am
The four blocks in East Village are smaller than Target Fields site, you would have to bleed over into the half lots by the highway.

The IRS processing center is a very roomy site for a stadium. I love that idea but have no idea if the IRS site is still in heavy use or if the feds want to reuse it for other departments if it's not being used now.

The orientation on that site is fantastic for views, downtown, Kauffman, union station and the Liberty Memorial. What a great setting for concerts too.
IRS still employs thousands and processes a majority of personal returns after consolidation of other centers iirc

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Highlander »

shinatoo wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:49 am
The four blocks in East Village are smaller than Target Fields site, you would have to bleed over into the half lots by the highway.

The IRS processing center is a very roomy site for a stadium. I love that idea but have no idea if the IRS site is still in heavy use or if the feds want to reuse it for other departments if it's not being used now.

The orientation on that site is fantastic for views, downtown, Kauffman, union station and the Liberty Memorial. What a great setting for concerts too.
There are not many options that do not involve tearing down viable buildings. That's a testament to how far DT has progressed. It wasn't that long ago that half a dozen locations could have been conjured up by looking at Google maps.

I like the idea of using the IRS site but that is a relatively new building and the government would never part with it (and imagine the incentive war that would come with the relocation of the existing facility). East Village kind of wins by default.

If anything was possible, I was thinking of the FBI downtown site would be a pretty cool place for a stadium but it would require absorbing the adjacent Mulkey park and it would probably still be too small and isolated without closing that short stretch of I-35 and redesigning the interchange to make it a large enough parcel of land. Most likely a far too costly project.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

longviewmo wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:32 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:49 am
The four blocks in East Village are smaller than Target Fields site, you would have to bleed over into the half lots by the highway.

The IRS processing center is a very roomy site for a stadium. I love that idea but have no idea if the IRS site is still in heavy use or if the feds want to reuse it for other departments if it's not being used now.

The orientation on that site is fantastic for views, downtown, Kauffman, union station and the Liberty Memorial. What a great setting for concerts too.
IRS still employs thousands and processes a majority of personal returns after consolidation of other centers iirc
Correct. Plus iirc the Fed Reserve has grown quit a bit and uses the IRS during the off season.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

longviewmo wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:32 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:49 am
The four blocks in East Village are smaller than Target Fields site, you would have to bleed over into the half lots by the highway.

The IRS processing center is a very roomy site for a stadium. I love that idea but have no idea if the IRS site is still in heavy use or if the feds want to reuse it for other departments if it's not being used now.

The orientation on that site is fantastic for views, downtown, Kauffman, union station and the Liberty Memorial. What a great setting for concerts too.
IRS still employs thousands and processes a majority of personal returns after consolidation of other centers iirc
10-4, thanks.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

Highlander wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:14 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:49 am
The four blocks in East Village are smaller than Target Fields site, you would have to bleed over into the half lots by the highway.

The IRS processing center is a very roomy site for a stadium. I love that idea but have no idea if the IRS site is still in heavy use or if the feds want to reuse it for other departments if it's not being used now.

The orientation on that site is fantastic for views, downtown, Kauffman, union station and the Liberty Memorial. What a great setting for concerts too.
There are not many options that do not involve tearing down viable buildings. That's a testament to how far DT has progressed. It wasn't that long ago that half a dozen locations could have been conjured up by looking at Google maps.

I like the idea of using the IRS site but that is a relatively new building and the government would never part with it (and imagine the incentive war that would come with the relocation of the existing facility). East Village kind of wins by default.

If anything was possible, I was thinking of the FBI downtown site would be a pretty cool place for a stadium but it would require absorbing the adjacent Mulkey park and it would probably still be too small and isolated without closing that short stretch of I-35 and redesigning the interchange to make it a large enough parcel of land. Most likely a far too costly project.
I still like PVP south of the IRS building. Pleanty of room for the stadium and great views. Plus a good use for what is, by all acounts, a weak park.

But I know I'm just dreaming.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dakkottadavviss »

DColeKC wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:47 am
dakkottadavviss wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:11 pm
Highlander wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:36 pm
What's the bare minimum in terms of footprint? Seems Fenway in Boston has a tiny footprint. With the Missouri Board of Education Building being taken out, there are two square blocks immediately north of Sprint Center that are almost totally vacant. The location is ideal but is it large enough?

With those blocks being nearly empty so close to the heart of downtown KC, it's kind of an embarrassment to the city so a stadium would be a great fit so close to the entertainment district. Otherwise, East Village is the only other downtown location worth considering.

I hear about south of Truman, but where? The best locale was the parking lots south of 20th and the vacant land immediately to the north but much of that area is being developed with apartments now. I don't like the idea of going east. US 71 becomes a fairly formidable barrier between the stadium and it's really no longer a downtown stadium. To make a downtown stadium integrated with downtown and, hence, a benefit, it needs to be walkable in terms of distance as well as psychological barriers.
The smallest ballpark footprint is Target Field at 8.5 acres, close to the size of the sprint center. Although ballparks are a little more square shaped than the sprint center (more rectangular site). A traditional urban ballpark would look like the Sprint Center + the two blocks east of it.

When it comes to the rumored sites for a ballpark. The P&L site is laughable, way too small. There’s the Sprint Center site, on the southeast corner of the loop. The ballpark would occupy all of the land east of the sprint center and south of the federal building. It would have pretty decent views of downtown if it’s facing north but it’s very constrained for the purposes of spinoff development. If they end up going downtown, it’ll be east village tho.
There are no rumored P&L locations just to be clear. I think we all know it's going in the east village but it's fun to dream.
I’m referencing the sites that were suggested in this last round of site studies. They suggested those 3 sites I mentioned above, plus the north loop site around 8th and main. Which if we’re dreaming, it’s the best site there is. Just look at the 2005 renderings of a downtown ballpark. Spectacular skyline views, old school design, big video board, streetcar stop, and a park over I-70. Unfortunately that site is off the table after the recent renovation of the flashcube building. I think that developer spent something like $100m total in purchasing the building and renovations.

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