Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by kcjak » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:49 am

beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:46 pm
If they finally reject this, does it get built anyway?
Days Inn *Select*

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:35 pm

mister816 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:52 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:46 pm
If they finally reject this, does it get built anyway?
nope
So, if that’s the case, the council is risking losing $Ms in revenue for mostly political or optical reasons? How is that in our best interest as citizens?

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by mean » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:46 pm

I assume they think it's in their best interest for reelection: the reason literally any politician does anything ever.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:10 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:35 pm
mister816 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:52 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:46 pm
If they finally reject this, does it get built anyway?
nope
So, if that’s the case, the council is risking losing $Ms in revenue for mostly political or optical reasons? How is that in our best interest as citizens?
Same logic applies to Strata, and the streetcar for some on the council.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:31 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:10 pm
Same logic applies to Strata, and the streetcar for some on the council.
It feels different than Strata though. I feel like with Strata they like the project and want office buildings but are trying to negotiate out the city backing piece. It feels like with this they just don’t want it. If they actually are negotiating on this hotel to pay less in incentives, then great. If they negotiate away it’s construction at all, that’s a loss for the city for no reason.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:31 pm
DaveKCMO wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:10 pm
Same logic applies to Strata, and the streetcar for some on the council.
It feels different than Strata though. I feel like with Strata they like the project and want office buildings but are trying to negotiate out the city backing piece. It feels like with this they just don’t want it. If they actually are negotiating on this hotel to pay less in incentives, then great. If they negotiate away it’s construction at all, that’s a loss for the city for no reason.
The Strata team comes off as knowledgeable and well prepared. Copaken Brooks knows what they are doing which is already known and confirmed by how they have handled themselves through this. CB is active in the community and donates to charities and politicians. More jobs in a new office building isn’t a hard sell politically. Summary: Good Developer, Good Project, Will Probably Get Built

The Bravo team comes off as the exact opposite. They come unprepared for meetings and do not reach out to the relevant organizations on time or at all. Their project doesn’t seem fully fleshed out and I personally struggle to understand why they are including a performance center down the street. It adds little value to the project and just sucks up more funds. The developers aren’t well know and pretty much zero information can be found out about them online. An ultra luxury hotel is a hard sell politically. Summary: Bad Developer, Bad Project, No Build

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by FangKC » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:04 pm

I think they are trying to lock in an incentives deal before the incentives dry up.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:11 pm

normalthings wrote: The Strata team comes off as knowledgeable and well prepared. Copaken Brooks knows what they are doing which is already known and confirmed by how they have handled themselves through this.
It’s interesting that you say this because the Strata meeting that I saw, I was really annoyed at the statements from one of the presenters. Older gentlemen, white hair, didn’t catch his name. He started talking about the need for parking DT and how it was going to become critical, that the city should double parking spaces... really arrogant too. It seemed like such a 1980s presentation. I do like the design of the building, it just makes me desirous of a fresh crop of developers in this city. The old guard needs to go.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by kenrbnj » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:30 am

normalthings wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:31 pm
DaveKCMO wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:10 pm
Same logic applies to Strata, and the streetcar for some on the council.
It feels different than Strata though. I feel like with Strata they like the project and want office buildings but are trying to negotiate out the city backing piece. It feels like with this they just don’t want it. If they actually are negotiating on this hotel to pay less in incentives, then great. If they negotiate away it’s construction at all, that’s a loss for the city for no reason.
The Strata team comes off as knowledgeable and well prepared. Copaken Brooks knows what they are doing which is already known and confirmed by how they have handled themselves through this. CB is active in the community and donates to charities and politicians. More jobs in a new office building isn’t a hard sell politically. Summary: Good Developer, Good Project, Will Probably Get Built

The Bravo team comes off as the exact opposite. They come unprepared for meetings and do not reach out to the relevant organizations on time or at all. Their project doesn’t seem fully fleshed out and I personally struggle to understand why they are including a performance center down the street. It adds little value to the project and just sucks up more funds. The developers aren’t well know and pretty much zero information can be found out about them online. An ultra luxury hotel is a hard sell politically. Summary: Bad Developer, Bad Project, No Build
You nailed it. I am sitting in my office in NY, drinking pumpkin spice coffee* and I can hear those guys laughing.

Strata is delivering a product the CBD *needs*, but the City Council expressed reservations with heavy-handed incentives.

Bravo is adding to a market that is largely addressed AND seeking inordinate tax incentives? Day drinking.

Don't get me wrong; I had been and always will be a proponent of tax incentives - especially TIF. The developers in KC-land have managed to turn tax incentives into a land grab. Moreover, as the CBD has become desirable, in-part due to tax incentives. At what point does the city begin to reap benefit from the incentives of the past?


*Yes. I actually do like Pumpkin Spice coffee.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by FangKC » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:06 am

Yes, antibiotics are necessary, but they have to be used responsibly and not for all situations. TIF is the same. TIF was necessary to create the environment for private reinvestment to happen. Once the Loop is healthy, there will still be a need to apply TIF to solve problems in other areas.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by beautyfromashes » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:50 am

FangKC wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:06 am
Yes, antibiotics are necessary, but they have to be used responsibly and not for all situations. TIF is the same. TIF was necessary to create the environment for private reinvestment to happen. Once the Loop is healthy, there will still be a need to apply TIF to solve problems in other areas.
It seems to me that whether this hotel is built without the incentives will be the test of if we have entered this new stage you talk about.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:06 am

Other downtown hotels have been built with no incentives. That test has concluded.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by langosta » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:59 am

Hilton Bravo Hotel - Planned - Site slated for a new construction, 300-room hotel.
From DowntownKC’s 2019 Development Map

https://www.downtownkc.org/wp-content/u ... -2019.pdf

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by Riverite » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:09 am

So is it a go? Also is 1915 Broadway the opus development? What’s number 5?

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:20 am

Riverite wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:09 am
So is it a go? Also is 1915 Broadway the opus development? What’s number 5?
The Opus Crossroads project is not a 'go' yet due to environmental issues.

#5 would be on land owned by Brad Nicholson. I know of no additional details.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:39 am

DaveKCMO wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:20 am
Riverite wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:09 am
So is it a go? Also is 1915 Broadway the opus development? What’s number 5?
The Opus Crossroads project is not a 'go' yet due to environmental issues.

#5 would be on land owned by Brad Nicholson. I know of no additional details.
A new tallest building for the Crossroads was at onetime one in the works for that intersection. It could be that.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by Riverite » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:01 am

Any details on that new tallest, also would that include Loews and freight

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:31 am

Riverite wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:01 am
Any details on that new tallest, also would that include Loews and freight
The last time I heard about 16 & Main, a range was given that was around Loews.
Last edited by normalthings on Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:39 am

There are much lower height recommendations around the Kauffman Center.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by LCDSI » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:10 pm

well seems like hotel bravo is dead.

this from today's business journal.
The $63 million luxury hotel proposed near the Kauffman Center for the Performing Arts will face a tougher road to a city incentive package after a big rejection on Thursday.

The Tax Increment Financing Commission of Kansas City voted 8-3 to deny a request for a massive incentive package after six months of delays that the panel offered to the developer in an effort to generate agreement among all concerned parties.
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... s_headline

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