Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9306
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Highlander »

Two full contiguous downtown blocks just north of the TMobile Center (or whatever it's called now) will be almost 100% occupied by surface lots. That's a bad look for the city. And the block just west of Grand is primarily a parking garage with little commercial activity at ground level. Seems like DT KC can never really fill up it's surface lots. Fill up some and others appear elsewhere. It's like trying to get air bubbles out of a water bed.

Why did the School Board move to 29th and Troost? That's a pretty hideous building they are in there.

Hopefully, the property values in these locations will at some point in the future demand something more dense than surface parking.

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1803
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by TheLastGentleman »

I hate that there's no development planned for this site, but am I the only one who's a little bit glad this is getting torn down? It's not just that the building is ugly, but it really wrecks the surrounding urban fabric. Obviously, a big parking lot will be doing more damage in the interim, but any future development built there will almost certainly be light-years better in every respect than the BoE building ever was. Probably won't happen anytime soon though.....

I'll be turning in my "preservationist" pin I guess.

User avatar
normalthings
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by normalthings »

Highlander wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:18 pm
Two full contiguous downtown blocks just north of the TMobile Center (or whatever it's called now) will be almost 100% occupied by surface lots. That's a bad look for the city. And the block just west of Grand is primarily a parking garage with little commercial activity at ground level. Seems like DT KC can never really fill up it's surface lots. Fill up some and others appear elsewhere. It's like trying to get air bubbles out of a water bed.

Why did the School Board move to 29th and Troost? That's a pretty hideous building they are in there.

Hopefully, the property values in these locations will at some point in the future demand something more dense than surface parking.
Demand is there to start filling in these blocks. 13 Grand even has a TIF plan in place. Seems like Copaken just wants to wait until a mega tenant magically appears one day.

I will say, turning BOE into parking would allow The Grand parking to be moved freeing up 13 Grand for redevelopment.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Ambassador
Posts: 18286
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by DaveKCMO »

Highlander wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:18 pm
Two full contiguous downtown blocks just north of the TMobile Center (or whatever it's called now) will be almost 100% occupied by surface lots. That's a bad look for the city. And the block just west of Grand is primarily a parking garage with little commercial activity at ground level. Seems like DT KC can never really fill up it's surface lots. Fill up some and others appear elsewhere. It's like trying to get air bubbles out of a water bed.

Why did the School Board move to 29th and Troost? That's a pretty hideous building they are in there.

Hopefully, the property values in these locations will at some point in the future demand something more dense than surface parking.
Image

Riverite
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 546
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Riverite »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:21 pm
Highlander wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:18 pm
Two full contiguous downtown blocks just north of the TMobile Center (or whatever it's called now) will be almost 100% occupied by surface lots. That's a bad look for the city. And the block just west of Grand is primarily a parking garage with little commercial activity at ground level. Seems like DT KC can never really fill up it's surface lots. Fill up some and others appear elsewhere. It's like trying to get air bubbles out of a water bed.

Why did the School Board move to 29th and Troost? That's a pretty hideous building they are in there.

Hopefully, the property values in these locations will at some point in the future demand something more dense than surface parking.
Image
Yikes, that looks terrible

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9306
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Highlander »

Riverite wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:23 pm
DaveKCMO wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:21 pm
Highlander wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:18 pm
Two full contiguous downtown blocks just north of the TMobile Center (or whatever it's called now) will be almost 100% occupied by surface lots. That's a bad look for the city. And the block just west of Grand is primarily a parking garage with little commercial activity at ground level. Seems like DT KC can never really fill up it's surface lots. Fill up some and others appear elsewhere. It's like trying to get air bubbles out of a water bed.

Why did the School Board move to 29th and Troost? That's a pretty hideous building they are in there.

Hopefully, the property values in these locations will at some point in the future demand something more dense than surface parking.
Image
Yikes, that looks terrible
It does. But it's not really downtown. It's in a dense largely residential area about 20 city blocks west of Downtown Chicago.

User avatar
FangKC
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14891
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by FangKC »

TheLastGentleman wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:05 pm
I hate that there's no development planned for this site, but am I the only one who's a little bit glad this is getting torn down? It's not just that the building is ugly, but it really wrecks the surrounding urban fabric. Obviously, a big parking lot will be doing more damage in the interim, but any future development built there will almost certainly be light-years better in every respect than the BoE building ever was. Probably won't happen anytime soon though.....

I'll be turning in my "preservationist" pin I guess.
Ecologist pin as well. The greenest building is a building that is already built.

dukuboy1
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:02 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by dukuboy1 »

I thought there had been a new rendering for development in this area, beyond the twisty building. It does stink that there is that much blank/open parking rang lad in that area. It will kind of be a hole now with what is around it. However I do like the fact they tore down a building that was aging and in decay. Not sure what is worse a building that looks vacant, rundown, and a hazard, or an empty lot? Hoping something will come into that area sooner, rather than later

scooterj
Ambassador
Posts: 6001
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:30 pm
Location: Northmoor
Contact:

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by scooterj »

I heard a rumor that there were anywhere from 50-150 homeless found living on the upper floors of the building just before demolition began. Evidently since the elevators were not working, security sweeps i the building rarely went up high enough to flush them out.

Chris Stritzel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Chris Stritzel »

Saturday...
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3761
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by chaglang »

Wasn't a huge fan of the building, but damn. Given the generally crappy level of new developments in the GDAP, it's hard to believe that whatever replaces it will be much better.

User avatar
normalthings
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by normalthings »

chaglang wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:27 pm
Wasn't a huge fan of the building, but damn. Given the generally crappy level of new developments in the GDAP, it's hard to believe that whatever replaces it will be much better.
Please explain

User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3761
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by chaglang »

The twisty tower is vaporware. It's hard to see anyone building a spec office building, especially now. With the exception of 17th and Walnut and Arterra, new residential development has been short and ugly. 17th and Walnut and Arterra included, the street presence of new residential development has been generally poor. From a materials standpoint the stucco NPSJ boxes are highly unlikely to last as long as the Board of Ed building. My guess is that whatever eventually replaces the "temporary" surface lot will be shorter and cheaper than what is being torn down. I'd love to be wrong about that.

shinatoo
Ambassador
Posts: 6558
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by shinatoo »

So what is the Ideal building height? Two tall you have the crush of New York, too short you can't support public transportation.

If all of downtown was covered in building where would you want the average height to be?

6-7 stories, like a big swath of Paris, feels right to me. San Francisco seams right.

Any experts know, or are there just too many variables?
Quocunque Jeceris Stabit

Riverite
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 546
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Riverite »

shinatoo wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:37 pm
So what is the Ideal building height? Two tall you have the crush of New York, too short you can't support public transportation.

If all of downtown was covered in building where would you want the average height to be?

6-7 stories, like a big swath of Paris, feels right to me. San Francisco seams right.

Any experts know, or are there just too many variables?
I enjoy massive skyscrapers, it feels interesting to me; of course the whole city doesn’t have to be made of them. Why not have a hyper dense downtown then 6-7 in adjacent neighborhoods

kas1
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:36 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by kas1 »

Building height is sort of a red herring when it comes to density. Taller buildings usually have lesser lot coverage (at least for the tower portion) so they end up being only a little bit denser than buildings of modest height that occupy the entire lot without any setbacks. This building itself is actually a perfect illustration of that concept -- so many people on here have acted like this building had great density which will never be replaced just because it's a little taller than most new stuff that's getting built. But when you actually calculate its floor-area ratio it's quite unremarkable. The building plus its associated parking structure occupy 112k sf of land with just 262k sf of office space. The W&R hq has the same amount of office space and 4x as much parking on just 47k sf of land -- and people here complained about that project being too small.

Whatever ends up getting build on this land will almost certainly be larger and have better design than the old building.

User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3761
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by chaglang »

kas1 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:41 pm
Whatever ends up getting build on this land will almost certainly be larger and have better design than the old building.
I wish I had your confidence! :lol:

Taller, denser, and a ground level that isn't composed of parking garage entries/blank walls/mechanical louvers. That's the bar for me. Basic...

kenrbnj
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:16 am

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by kenrbnj »

It is a hope/desire the prosperity of P&L, River Market, Crossroads, Crown Center shifts east.

Within the loop area; the government buildings dominate. Stating fact: Those buildings and their employees do not seem to bring the same dynamic to their working district as compared to the private sector on the western extents of the loop. It would be interesting to understand why. (Age demographic? typical political disposition? architectural factors? compensation factors?)

The redevelopment on the eastern loop are a catalyst for this. Whatever goes in over the COVID recovery years is hopefully better aligned to the success factors enjoyed south and west of the "government district".

User avatar
normalthings
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by normalthings »

Copaken will be presenting their plans for this site on Monday to downtown development committee. Link to zoom rsvp below

https://forms.gle/1k7JNyvk1Btvi4Mo9

Chris Stritzel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Chris Stritzel »

normalthings wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:48 pm
Copaken will be presenting their plans for this site on Monday to downtown development committee. Link to zoom rsvp below

https://forms.gle/1k7JNyvk1Btvi4Mo9
Hopefully it’s something that they intend on starting faster than the other “projects” they’ve unveiled.

Post Reply