Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
aknowledgeableperson
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Benefits by the unions in this issue are more in line with holiday pay, vacation and sick leave pay, health, life and disability insurances, pension contributions, time off with pay to vote, etc.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by earthling »

NYC started $11 minimum wage end of last year and my brother in Brooklyn says it has started a wave of dining class counter restaurants called 'Fast-Fine'. Chef driven upper end entrees but no servers. It's essentially the McDonalds counter model but with maybe above avg dining decor and fine eats. Not even a bar/bartender, though wine bottles available. The Mixx is like that here, upper endish counter eats, but not entree dining that NYC is seeing.

In NYC the $11 minimum only applies for biz with 12 or more employees but servers/dishwashers/bartenders don't want to work for a smaller restaurant that doesn't increase the wage. I think NYC goes to $15 end of next year.

Can't imagine the impact to KCMO at $15. Wouldn't be surprising if many restaurants move to the burbs. Unlikely JoCo will support significant increases.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by flyingember »

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/opin ... -wage.html
This is a new piece from this week on it that can help show what would happen.

Low wage work left Seattle but it's argued that basic job competition changed that more than businesses cutting jobs or moving.

It looks like what would basically happen is KC would see the best workers from surrounding suburbs get jobs in KC while employers in the suburbs , especially in close proximity to KC, would be forced to complete on wage or see their employment base move down in skill level due to increased turnover and less demand at the wage provided.

Employers in many industries inside KC would be able to fire a low performing workers knowing they could hire a new worker easily and improve their employment base.

It also would put stress on slightly higher wage jobs rather quickly. Suddenly an entry wage for many college degree-centric jobs would pay close to the same as working retail with no skills. So larger employers would see pressure to improve their working conditions, pay, hours, benefits, etc to make up for this. benefits like WFH could suddenly become an advertised advantage in more roles. A place offering better than average to drive 45 minutes to the edge of the city would be a harder sell when every job in the center of the city pays the same.

A higher minimum wage would also stress the ability of low skilled workers to get to work even more than today, because the bus system wouldn't serve them as it does today with it's KC-centric focus but it would help workers get downtown from the suburbs, making it easier to live outside of the urban core.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by TheBigChuckbowski »

earthling wrote:NYC started $11 minimum wage end of last year and my brother in Brooklyn says it has started a wave of dining class counter restaurants called 'Fast-Fine'. Chef driven upper end entrees but no servers. It's essentially the McDonalds counter model but with maybe above avg dining decor and fine eats. Not even a bar/bartender, though wine bottles available. The Mixx is like that here, upper endish counter eats, but not entree dining that NYC is seeing.

In NYC the $11 minimum only applies for biz with 12 or more employees but servers/dishwashers/bartenders don't want to work for a smaller restaurant that doesn't increase the wage. I think NYC goes to $15 end of next year.

Can't imagine the impact to KCMO at $15. Wouldn't be surprising if many restaurants move to the burbs. Unlikely JoCo will support significant increases.
Not sure those two things are related. Servers/bartenders are tipped and don't fall under the normal minimum wage. I would think the concept you're talking about would require more non-tipped employees than a typical restaurant.

That concept has been extremely popular in Orange County, CA for years. You can barely even find a normal sit-down restaurant there.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by earthling »

I think in NYC there's still an increase in minimum wage for tipped employees but maybe not same level. But true that it varies by localities.

edit: Yes, it's still an increase over time for tipped employees as well, my brother was implying the $11 minimum (or I took it that way), which is for non-tipped. Nevertheless, still significant increases across the board..
https://www.littler.com/publication-pre ... hould-know
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by earthling »

Missouri minimum wage hike now has some workers making more than double those in Kansas
https://fox4kc.com/2020/01/01/missouri- ... in-kansas/

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, given KC metro is different than other markets. Not just because of state line but because economy/GDP are fairly close on both sides within metro, closer than other state line markets.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by flyingember »

"We're on the state line. We can literally spit into Kansas," Vic Allred said. "Their rate there is $2.13 per hour; ours is about to be 5 bucks. So you are talking about every one server you have here you have two servers there."
The one thing often not mentioned is the minimum wage will go up just across the state line because of supply and demand. If you're not getting your choice of new applicants and your best existing workers are quitting with each new opening in Missouri you'll raise wages to compensate.
Allred, also a Missouri state lawmaker, said Proposition B, which will eventually raise the state's minimum wage for servers to $6, puts Missouri at a competitive disadvantage.
And it will also put the state at a competitive advantage because companies can demand more efficient and skilled workers. The best workers will be lining up for a job in Missouri that pays more so lazy ones will need to step up or expect to look for a job in Kansas where they pay less.
But for servers at restaurants the pay discrepancy is even more dramatic. Tipped employees must be paid at least half of the new 2020 rate of $9.45.
If tipping can become a thing of the past that would be great.
All tipping does is make customers pay workers more of their wages and there's uncertainty for someone if they'll make enough that shift. Why not raise prices and customers can pay workers more of their wages that way, but the employees are more assured of earning enough that day???


This is about Seattle. Granted there's no state line but the results have been far from what was claimed.
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/ ... 15-dollars
Generally, those business owners who threatened to leave Seattle to evade the new wage haven’t been following through. “The restaurant industry moans and groans about minimum wage increase, but the Seattle newspaper every month has a story about 40 new restaurants opening,” said Jennifer Romich, a University of Washington social policy researcher. (According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the number of jobs in restaurants and bars in the Seattle area has grown from 134,000 to 158,000 since 2015.) Surveying employers, Romich and other researchers found the most common response to the wage increase was to raise prices or fiddle with workers’ hours, and a “very small percentage were thinking about withdrawing or leaving the city.”
So in other words, businesses with the right business model do fine.


There's also the big picture on the cost of running a business. Here's rental rates across the city.

https://ngzimmer.com/sites/default/file ... Online.pdf

Space in Johnson County could become less desirable than other areas in town. Commutes from Clay County to College Blvd become unreasonable if they can get a job in Missouri that pays more for less commute and your employer could open up an office in Clay County instead.

Think about this with free bus service in the mix. You can get paid more and not pay to get to work.

There's way more upside to changing jobs in this market.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by kenrbnj »

Tipping couples performance to compensation directly in the context of table or bar service.

Remove tipping; the dining patron will likely receive standard service.

Asymmetric minimum wage perverts the local economy. The VOX piece did touch on this fact; though applied stress that the Seattle labor market was "slightly better off".

Applying a Seattle Social experiment to KC-land? Two elements to account for:

#1. The Seattle Experiment has not been tested by a recession. In a recession, there is a "Race to the bottom", in terms of cost controls. Further, the VOX piece had not made reference to automation: Panera bread and several fast food outlets immediately placed touchscreen POC terminals in their lobbies after the $15 minimum wage legislation was passed... People are indeed using them to a large degree.

#2. KC land is famously competitive between the constituent states. Jump the state line, your cost structure changes.

In downtown KC; the recovery is wonderful - but FRAGILE. Smart money suggests you let market forces drive wage levels.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by flyingember »

kenrbnj wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:12 am Tipping couples performance to compensation directly in the context of table or bar service.

Remove tipping; the dining patron will likely receive standard service.
You don't fire your servers if the kitchen or bar can't get their act together but your tip probably goes mainly to the server.

Tipping impacts the person who likely has the least impact on the speed and quality of service.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by DColeKC »

flyingember wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:29 am
kenrbnj wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:12 am Tipping couples performance to compensation directly in the context of table or bar service.

Remove tipping; the dining patron will likely receive standard service.
You don't fire your servers if the kitchen or bar can't get their act together but your tip probably goes mainly to the server.

Tipping impacts the person who likely has the least impact on the speed and quality of service.
Thus the reason BOH staff are paid a much higher hourly rate. Your servers are the face and voice of your business. A great wait staff can make up for a slow kitchen. A fast kitchen won’t do much if the wait staff is rude.
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Re: Minimum Wage (Split from New Convention Hotel)

Post by flyingember »

DColeKC wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:22 am

Thus the reason BOH staff are paid a much higher hourly rate. Your servers are the face and voice of your business. A great wait staff can make up for a slow kitchen. A fast kitchen won’t do much if the wait staff is rude.
The head chef is the voice of your restaurant. They speak to people through the food. Food connects to culture and memory and emotions. You go to restaurant X because of the quality of a meal in 99% of cases.

The chef's name goes on the door. That said, you don't need to actually see this person. Gordon Ramsey isn't in every restaurant with his name at the same time.

If the food is made wrong or it's slow or they were out of a specific wine or the floor was dirty the server doesn't clean the floor, make the food or stock the wine.

The people least likely to be tipped employees have the biggest impact on the wages someone who is gets. And that's the problem.

It's why the minimum wage change will be a huge positive for restaurants in Missouri. Because workers who are stuck in a bad restaurant will be incentivized to change states and get paid better from day one before they know how tipping is.
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