13th and Grand tower

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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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DaveKCMO wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:57 pm
dukuboy1 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:16 am Also I see posts where people get bunched up about buildings that consider parking. I hate to tell ya but KC is always going to consider this. KC is car centric, even the ppl who live & work downtown mostly own cars. The cars are needed to get out to other areas of town easily. Perhaps that becomes less over time as we get more dense & add more public transit options. But cars will still be a factor for many years to come.
Most people here are blasting the ratios, not the existence of any parking. The W&R project is the classic example -- the number of spaces far exceeds even the most suburban ratio for office space. Since these projects also claim that parking drives their need for incentives, it seems quite logical to focus on that whenever it's in the mix (which is always).

And if we're not blasting ratios, we're blasting the street interface. There are decent garages all over the world and many of them don't cost more, they just don't dominate the street level to the detriment of urban design or transit-oriented development.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... enant.html
In the intervening months(since January), Copaken Brooks has continued marketing its 13th and Grand property to individual tenants "of the size and stature of Waddell & Reed," as well as smaller tenants who could share the future building, said Ryan Biery, senior vice president with Copaken Brooks.

The commercial real estate company wants to build a 10-story, 320,000-square-foot building as soon as it can land tenant commitments to occupy half of the tower's square footage, he said.

Once finished, Biery said, the 13th and Grand tower would become Kansas City's first major multitenant office project since 1991, when the 1201 Walnut building was completed.

Some tenants who tentatively considered the proposed 13th and Grand building have "hit pause" due to the Covid-19 pandemic, though the volume of interest has not "slowed tremendously," Biery said.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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I’d like this plan much more if it anchored a 60 floor tower-looks like a waste of one of the most important core blocks in the downtown loop. Anybody have a connection to Copaken to plead that case? Or at least be built to accommodate an additional tower of that size? Of course that’s how the UMB Bank tower was built umpteen years ago & we see how that’s turned out.....
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Post by horizons82 »

While I’m heartened that it appears to be mostly activated at street level, the aesthetics seem subpar given the scale of the development.

The base reminds me of a DC brutalist building.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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Long-proposed $200M 'landmark' office tower still awaits tenants
smh...nope.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Way too short and nondescript for such a prominent location. I know there's some skyscraper-skeptical folks on this forum, but I can't imagine anyone here is overjoyed with this design.

That said, I'll begrudgingly accept it over the parking lot there now.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Post by smh »

1200 parking spots in the proposal.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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beautyfromashes wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 3:41 pm Long-proposed $200M 'landmark' office tower still awaits tenants
smh...nope.
I think they could propose a two-story single family house downtown and it would still be described as a "landmark tower"
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Post by earthling »

Skyline wise it sure would be nice to have a tall building that ties Govt District into the CBD. This is the spot to do it.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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ugh. the building is...whatever... but the parking... and the PR around "skyline changing" "landmark"...Ugh.

The article also mentioned a construction timeline:
The city's TIF Commission in June 2016 revised a 10-year-old agreement with Copaken Brooks, keeping the firm eligible for financing valued at $48.7 million over 23 years, so long as it starts construction by October 2023 and finishes by October 2026.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Post by TheLastGentleman »

earthling wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 3:49 pm Skyline wise it sure would be nice to have a tall building that ties Govt District into the CBD. This is the spot to do it.
It would also balance out the huge horizontal size of the Sprint Center, in the same way the CN Tower balances out the Skydome in Toronto

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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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Major KC Fan wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 3:37 pm I’d like this plan much more if it anchored a 60 floor tower-looks like a waste of one of the most important core blocks in the downtown loop. Anybody have a connection to Copaken to plead that case? Or at least be built to accommodate an additional tower of that size? Of course that’s how the UMB Bank tower was built umpteen years ago & we see how that’s turned out.....
It’s my understanding that anything other than what the city signed off on would requiring going back through the TIF process (I could be mistaken). I would also much rather see all 5 office “tower” projects in the works get built than a single skyscraper.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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The commercial real estate company wants to build a 10-story, 320,000-square-foot building as soon as it can land tenant commitments to occupy half of the tower's square footage, he said.
Though the city's Tax Increment Financing Commission originally approved the 10-story project, Biery said Copaken Brooks has not closed the door on a previous alternate proposal — a more extravagant 25-story, 525,000-square-foot tower with a twisting design.
He said Copaken Brooks could revisit that design if tenant demand eclipsed what the 10-story tower could accommodate, or to maximize the firm's site in creating a "lasting landmark" at the "front door" of Downtown's entertainment offerings.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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normalthings wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 3:56 pmI would also much rather see all 5 office “tower” projects in the works get built than a single skyscraper.
I'd agree, but only if we could somehow prove that the office space left out of a shorter tower would translate directly into new construction elsewhere nearby. I know economic theory says that the leftover demand not absorbed by the tower will manifest new supply somewhere else, but economic theory also says that the demand should've produced something by now, so....

It's clear that waiting around for tenants to sign up to rent unbuilt conceptual office buildings isn't working, and that none of our developers are willing to take a risk actually building anything.

And if Copaken is waiting for KC to become a better market before building anything substantial, then they should be testing the waters somewhere other than 13th and Grand.

As it stands, it looks to me like we're just going to end up with less overall office space than we could've had.
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Post by Chris Stritzel »

The new design looks fine to me. Could be taller but it is what it is. The design reminds me a bit of WR and Reverb, so I thought the architect was Burns and McDonnell. However, BizJournal gives image credit to HOK.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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That block has sat empty for so long that anything would be great. I don't see KC getting a real skyscraper probably in my lifetime. I have just accepted that reality.

But stop calling it a landmark office tower. I mean good lord, DC probably has 500 buildings like this. It's a nice infill project, hardly a landmark and I wouldn't even call it a tower.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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GRID wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:47 pm That block has sat empty for so long that anything would be great. I don't see KC getting a real skyscraper probably in my lifetime. I have just accepted that reality.

But stop calling it a landmark office tower. I mean good lord, DC probably has 500 buildings like this. It's a nice infill project, hardly a landmark and I wouldn't even call it a tower.
We have two skyscrapers, the first is 30 years old. The minimum is 40 floors and 492 feet

A landmark is something so notable you can navigate by. A landmark can be the smallest building in the area if it’s the easiest to distinguish.
I’m not sure it would work as one, and in the same sense DC probably doesn’t have 500 landmarks for the same reason, they would get lost in the overall environment.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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I think the biggest take away for me from the article is that other bigger area companies are looking at moving downtown.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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The more I think about it, I could see this being a space that T-Mobile would be looking at for a Downtown presence. Reason being that if they get the naming rights to Sprint Center, they can be in an office building right next door with their name on the roof. They'll also be able to attract younger workers by being in a Downtown while reassuring the community that they are committed to job creation in Kansas City. It seems like a win to me.

It's a pie in the sky idea but it makes some sense. Why wouldn't they want a Downtown operation especially with all that's going on and will eventually come? The building's size is reasonable for them too. While it would be nice if they went bigger, a building of this size is a sizable investment to make on a bet for the future. And remember: bigger isn't always better.

The design, as seen, can be tweaked some but it could be done right if they want a high quality project.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower

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flyingember wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:59 pm
GRID wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:47 pm That block has sat empty for so long that anything would be great. I don't see KC getting a real skyscraper probably in my lifetime. I have just accepted that reality.

But stop calling it a landmark office tower. I mean good lord, DC probably has 500 buildings like this. It's a nice infill project, hardly a landmark and I wouldn't even call it a tower.
We have two skyscrapers, the first is 30 years old. The minimum is 40 floors and 492 feet

A landmark is something so notable you can navigate by. A landmark can be the smallest building in the area if it’s the easiest to distinguish.
I’m not sure it would work as one, and in the same sense DC probably doesn’t have 500 landmarks for the same reason, they would get lost in the overall environment.
I said DC has 500 building just like this one that is proposed in KC. It's hardly a landmark building. Even a 25 story building (which is not a skyscraper but at least could call it a "tower") would be significant and a highly visible building at that location. But a 10-12 story building? People might notice it when visiting Sprint Center. 13th and Grand would be perfect for a 30-50 story tower because Downtown KC seriously lacks a large structure east of Grand, especially a modern structure built past 1960. But this is probably as good at is will get and this will still probably take another ten years to open. Build it. There are 100 other blocks east of grand for a larger tower if demand ever materializes. It looks like a nice project to get more momentum going for office space. It's just over hyped as far as being a "landmark tower".
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