OFFICIAL - Loews Convention Hotel (formerly Hyatt)

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by Midtownkid »

Slappy the Wang wrote: What nationally recognized facet of KC is intriguing to a potential convention-goer from non-midwest states?

I'd say our first step in attracting such events to KC would be to get the CVB moving in an aggressive direction...have Colin Powell, Schwartzkopff or some other military standout pimp the War Memorial, get Bill Cosby advertising the Jazz Museum and Negro Leagues Baseball Museum (he is a known fan of both jazz and the league), etc.  Don't we have any celebs or notables who like this place enough to cast a national image?
KC's increasingly creative vibe generated from its design community as well as our strong art museums is starting to put us on the map.  http://www.pointclickhome.com/travel/ar ... ansas_city.  BBQ has always been there for us, but we are starting to become known as a funky place with surprisingly interesting architecture, charming neighborhoods, etc.  Our 'hidden gem' quality is actually one of the best things we have going for us.  I think it's ok for KC not to be a cheesy tourist trap/conventioneer city.  
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by KC-wildcat »

Midtownkid wrote: Our 'hidden gem' quality is actually one of the best things we have going for us.  I think it's ok for KC not to be a cheesy tourist trap/conventioneer city.  
I agree with the first part.  And I don't like cheesy tourist traps.  Don't really know if KC even has a "cheesy" tourist trap. 

But, conventions are/were big business in Kansas City.  A big chunk of our downtown (bartle + hotels + restuarants) rely upon the conventioneers to pay the bills.  With the recent influx of restuarants and bars downtown, I see the need for conventioneers growing.

There is a reason the convention business thrives.  It produces mega bucks for host cities.  There is absolutely NO reason why KC should not be aggressively staking out market share.   
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by moderne »

The convention business is NOT thriving.  Of course this is probably due to the overall economic climate, but in the longer view continued high energy  prices and their effect on travel costs will continue to impact the business.  It has always seemed more than coincidence to me that Kansas City's decline in relative importance on the national scene began with the advent of jet passenger service.  At one time a large chunk of intercoastal travelers HAD to pass through here.  Every starlet on her way from LA to a New York promo tried to run down to Harzfeld's during a Union Station stopover. Then came the 707 and KC became a flyover region with people able to reach more glamorous places easily. With high energy costs and a possible improvement in rail travel the city's heart of America location could vault it back into the meeting business.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by Slappy the Wang »

moderne wrote: The convention business is NOT thriving.  Of course this is probably due to the overall economic climate, but in the longer view continued high energy  prices and their effect on travel costs will continue to impact the business.  It has always seemed more than coincidence to me that Kansas City's decline in relative importance on the national scene began with the advent of jet passenger service.  At one time a large chunk of intercoastal travelers HAD to pass through here.  Every starlet on her way from LA to a New York promo tried to run down to Harzfeld's during a Union Station stopover. Then came the 707 and KC became a flyover region with people able to reach more glamorous places easily. With high energy costs and a possible improvement in rail travel the city's heart of America location could vault it back into the meeting business.
Whoa...that paragraph was anything but "moderne."
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

LenexatoKCMO wrote: According to the neutral source we have over a half million more sq feet than San Antonio and are within a few percent of DC and SLC.  So once again, who do we really need more sq ft to compete with?
Over a half million more sq ft than San Antonio?  Hell, the listing from above has KCCC with just over 600,000 sq ft so San Antonio doesn't even have 100,000  :lol:.

Here is the description of San Antonio:
Nestled in the heart of historic downtown San Antonio along the banks of the world famous River Walk thrives the nucleus of our City?s convention industry. The Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center (HBGCC) plays host to more than 300 events each year with over 750,000 convention delegates from around the world.

The HBGCC once built as part of the 1968 HemisFair is but a memory as it has expanded into a beautifully decorated and spacious facility. The HBGCC spans an impressive 1.3 million square feet to include 59 meeting rooms, 3 beautiful ballrooms, 4 exhibit halls with a contiguous space of approximately 440,000 sq. ft. and 7 registration areas.

The HBGCC complex also features the Lila Cockrell Theatre, a 2,521-seat Performing Arts Theatre.  The Alamodome and more than 9,600 of the City?s downtown hotel rooms (over 25,000 citywide) are within minutes and walking distance as well as restaurants and entertainment.


For exhibit floor space KCCC has 388,000 sq ft, as stated above San Antonio has 440,000, SLC has over 500,000 and DC has over 470,000.  Looks like we are smaller than the three by more than just a few percentage points.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

kcjak wrote: That's what cities (and businesses and homeowners and...) do - identify a need, fill it and then move on to the next thing. 
You didn't follow.  In this instance the city has multiple needs with regards to the convention and tradeshow business - adding the hotel only partially fixes one of those needs.  That is why I said:
For those who think that a 1,000 room convention hotel will solve the city's convention problems are not totally aware of this city's shortcomings in the convention and tradeshow business.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by im2kull »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: You didn't follow.  In this instance the city has multiple needs with regards to the convention and tradeshow business - adding the hotel only partially fixes one of those needs.  That is why I said:
For those who think that a 1,000 room convention hotel will solve the city's convention problems are not totally aware of this city's shortcomings in the convention and tradeshow business.
Perhaps its that us Convention Hotel Proponents realize that we have to start somewhere...to fix those multiple needs in regards to the convention and tradeshow business.

You on the other hand, Mr. I'm-the-NIMBY-next-door, would rather sit around, twiddle your thumbs, and wait for a convention hotel, a few hundred thousand square feet of convention space, and a whole boat load of infrastructure improvements to magically appear and squash the citys every last need when it comes to the convention biz.


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Last edited by im2kull on Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

im2kull wrote: we have to start somewhere...to fix those multiple needs in regards to the convention and tradeshow business.
True, you have to start somewhere but "you" are the one dreaming small.

If the city does decide to go the 1,000 room convention hotel route then why fix just one part of the problem?  Instead of doing it piecemeal (like the city has done in the past) make it something worthwhile.  Build the hotel, add the space to the center, provide funds for the other downtown hotels to upgrade their properties, add the streetscape improvements, build a decent convention and entertainment parking garage, upgrade some of the space in the old Muni, fix up the old Muelbach hotel, and anything else associated with the convention business.

Building just the hotel isn't even putting a finger in the dike, it's just thinking about doing it and also having other holes developing.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by KCPowercat »

Always complaining about lack of funds to neighborhoods then propose THAT?  Weird.

I am going with the cva officials who say our hotel room inventory isn't enough to match bartle's current size.  Parking garage is NOT a need.  Christ.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by im2kull »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: True, you have to start somewhere but "you" are the one dreaming small.

If the city does decide to go the 1,000 room convention hotel route then why fix just one part of the problem?  Instead of doing it piecemeal (like the city has done in the past) make it something worthwhile.  Build the hotel, add the space to the center, provide funds for the other downtown hotels to upgrade their properties, add the streetscape improvements, build a decent convention and entertainment parking garage, upgrade some of the space in the old Muni, fix up the old Muelbach hotel, and anything else associated with the convention business.

Building just the hotel isn't even putting a finger in the dike, it's just thinking about doing it and also having other holes developing.
Alright AKP...I'll bite...

So let's say that Maybe, just maybe the city doesn't want to hold itself back for once.  Maybe it wants to build the whole shebang at once...rather than just the hotel.  That would make sense right?  Just skip remodeling the bathroom, let's tear down some walls and turn the whole house into a construction zone...right?  In a perfect world, Sure, go ahead...Get'r done!

Problem is,
The Year is 2009.  The United States is in a recession.  The states of California, and Kansas are writing IOU's to Taxpayers....and you want over a Billion Dollars of publicly funded development to magically appear in downtown Kansas City at the snap of a finger?  Right?

Sounds Logical enough,
I'll let you do the math on that one Junior.



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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by KC-wildcat »

im2kull wrote:
Problem is,
The Year is 2009.  The United States is in a recession.  The states of California, and Kansas are writing IOU's to Taxpayers....and you want over a Billion Dollars of publicly funded development to magically appear in downtown Kansas City at the snap of a finger?  Right?
Look, AKP does NOT want the total convention package upgraded.  Don't kid yourself.  He's playing games with you.  He knows full well that the economic landscape makes such a course of action impossible.  Hell, even in a good ecomony, that type of comprehensive overhaul would be impossible. 

He argues that the convention hotel is useless without the other upgrades.  He knows the other upgrades are impossible.  Hence, the convention hotel is useless. 

It's circular.  But hey, it's AKP.       
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by loftguy »

Following this discussion, and countless others with a common theme, I have started a new thread in General Kansas City.

Please see "Why NOT Kansas City?" and share your thoughts.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

KCPowercat wrote: Always complaining about lack of funds to neighborhoods then propose THAT?  Weird.

I am going with the cva officials who say our hotel room inventory isn't enough to match bartle's current size.  Parking garage is NOT a need.  Christ.
Most people on this site complain about the city "NOT" doing enough.  And just building a hotel is just not enough to help the city's convention business.  Well, yes, we don't have enough hotel rooms but at the same time we lost Skills, Walmart, and FFA also because of a lack of size of the convention facilities.  In other words these organizations outgrew the facilities.  So just building hotels rooms doesn't solve the problem facing KCMO.  And by the way, those same cva officials said we needed a ballroom and guess what - that didn't solve the problem and neither will just a 1,000 room hotel.

No correlation to the neighborhoods, at least if done right (no TIF's or raiding the general fund).  The proposed hotel will call for a tax increase so have an increase that will accomplish something instead of doing something half-assed.

The BAP Garage is on borrowed time, it needed replacement years ago.  Money spent on it over the past few years is like pouring money down a rathole.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by KC-wildcat »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: ...at the same time we lost Skills, Walmart, and FFA also because of a lack of size of the convention facilities.  In other words these organizations outgrew the facilities. 
I have not seen any evidence to support this statement.  In all of the articles that I have read, officials for Skills and Walmart essentially said, "if you had the hotel rooms, we wouldn't be having this conversation."

Link an article that supports your proposition.  Until then, I'm just going to assume you're incorrect. 
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by KCPowercat »

Maybe those aren't the conventions for us...kids conferences and walmart have to give us the least spin off business to bars/restaurants of any large convention.

Now that we have an entertainment district walkable, its time to go after some corporate adult type conventions...get more hotels to properly match our size (look at peer cities and their space vs. Hotel inventory ratio) and market budget along with fun and there is an alot better convention out there than walmart and their bottom dollar per diems.
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by ringdoc »

it just infuriates me to no end, kc can spend $500,000.00 on a study to tell the city whether or not to build a 1000 room hotel. they are building  a 500 room hotel next to the sears tower in Chicago, and renaming the sears tower to the same as the hotel, thats Chicago. and they think we need a 1000 room, shoot, give me two hundred thou, and I will map out all the vacant rooms from the airport to the plaza and set up a plan for a shuttle bus and save the city 250 thou. kc has budget problems and do police cut backs, 500 thou would keep at least a cpl more cops on the beat
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by im2kull »

ringdoc wrote: it just infuriates me to no end, kc can spend $500,000.00 on a study to tell the city whether or not to build a 1000 room hotel. they are building  a 500 room hotel next to the sears tower in Chicago, and renaming the sears tower to the same as the hotel, thats Chicago. and they think we need a 1000 room, shoot, give me two hundred thou, and I will map out all the vacant rooms from the airport to the plaza and set up a plan for a shuttle bus and save the city 250 thou. kc has budget problems and do police cut backs, 500 thou would keep at least a cpl more cops on the beat
First off, welcome to the site.

Now I can understand some of the things that you have said in your post...however I believe that you are misinformed and off base in your comments.  The problem isn't about having enough overall hotel rooms in the greater kansas city area to accompany a large convention.  The problem is the lack of hotel rooms (specifically the lack of a single, large, 1,000+ room hotel) in the immeadiate downtown area, to keep (travel) costs down for the hosting company, and to keep convention attendees within a stones throw of the convention center (a central location if you will).

No corporation wants to pay for their employees to be bussed back and forth from the airport, KC North, OP, and South KC, 10 times a day...to attend 10 different meetings at the convention center downtown.  That's missing the whole point of a corporate convention.  Corporations want rooms, Close to.. if not right on top of their meeting spaces for all large corporate type meetings/conventions that occur around the country.  A 1,000+ room flagship convention hotel is what these corporations are looking for.  Why?  Because that's where the least expensive costs lie.  A corporation simply books the entire hotel, a few thousand square feet of convention space next door, and they're done.  There's no worrying about busses or transportation, food or catering, paying multiple hotel charges for rooms to stay in, paying hotel taxes in multiple cities, or worrying about where you will have the small meetings at.  A Single convention hotel can provide all of that, and Save the company money

"Billy Mays here!...The key lies within a convention hotels many, many meeting rooms located just footsteps inside!  Those special meeting rooms, along with hundreds of other well sought after ammenities save you and your company money the moment you enter.  Book now and I'll even throw in these convenient lint rollers!  Around the home, in the car...they'll do it all!  You want a sweeter deal?  You wont find it!  Call now to book it up...the clock is ticking...and you're loosing money!!"

KC could be a major player in the corporate convention business with its central location.  This isn't about a SKILLS convention, or a Future Farmers of America Convention.  Nope, its not about Wal-Mart or Betty Crocker....this is bigger.  The conventions we want are what every White Collar American dreads to be a part of, but loves going to because of the 3 day paid vacation, and the parties afterwards.  Getting a convention hotel in Downtown KC would do nothing but help bring hundreds of thousands of new people to Kansas City, and millions of new revenues to the city.  But don't take my word, take Billy Mays!
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

KC-wildcat wrote: I have not seen any evidence to support this statement.  In all of the articles that I have read, officials for Skills and Walmart essentially said, "if you had the hotel rooms, we wouldn't be having this conversation."

Link an article that supports your proposition.  Until then, I'm just going to assume you're incorrect. 
This is one:
The rooms situation was not the "sole" reason.
http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/677895-p2.html

Wal-Mart officials had toured Kemper Arena with him recently, he said, and appeared agreeable to expanding the event’s merchandise exhibit to that building for the first time. The show already consumes all of Bartle Hall and Municipal Auditorium.

“We had a nonbinding letter of agreement they would meet in Kansas City through 2012,” McGaskey said.

Part of the problem, McGaskey said, is that Wal-Mart last year compressed its event by several days into one meeting instead of back-to-back sessions. That sharply increased the need for more rooms as well as the need for more show floor space.
The shows are closed to the public.

“We knew when we booked them the day would come when they would outgrow us,” Lucas said


And one concerning FFA:
KC out of the running for next FFA convention deal
By RICK ALM
The Kansas City Star
Kansas City has missed making another big convention’s short list.

Kansas City Convention and Visitors Association spokesman Alan Carr said that the FFA advised the city Friday it had narrowed its choice of 2013-19 convention sites to Indianapolis or Louisville, Ky. Nashville, Tenn., and Minneapolis were apparently also eliminated.

“This was a monster convention,” said Carr. It was expected to draw up to 60,000 attendees and annual spending of $48.7 million.

Carr said FFA officials reported that Kansas City’s facilities and hotel rooms met the organization’s minimum requirements but might not in a few years as the organization grows.

He said the group was most concerned with the size of Bartle Hall and adequate parking downtown.

The FFA’s youth membership and adult advisers met in Kansas City for 71 consecutive years but left for Louisville in 1999. The event moved to Indianapolis in 2005, where it will remain through 2012.

When the blue-jacketed youths left Kansas City nine years ago, the organization said at the time it had outgrown the city’s convention and hotel facilities, and expressed frustration over splitting up activities and transporting huge numbers of people between Bartle Hall and the American Royal and Kemper Arena complexes.

Last month Kansas City lost its biggest convention, SkillsUSA, when it said it would move to Louisville for 2015 through 2020. That convention first met in Kansas City in 1994 and annually ranked as the city’s largest. Last year it resulted in an estimated $14.8 million in spending by conventioneers.

The city has seen an increase in convention bookings as organizations and event planners see that the Sprint Center and other parts of the downtown revival are coming to fruition. But convention and tourism officials said the loss of SkillsUSA’s convention pointed up the need for a new downtown hotel and another Bartle Hall expansion if the city is to stay competitive.


And another:
The main reason we lost out was the lack of floor space to hold the various competitions.  For the Star article.

???The sole reason is space,” said SkillsUSA spokesman Tom Holdsworth


And from the following site:
http://www.skillsusa.org/about/louisville.shtml

?Our national conference and SkillsUSA Championships is the nation?s biggest and best showcase for career and technical education students and the skilled work force it prepares. We have an obligation to our members and sponsors to keep it growing,? said Tim Lawrence, executive director of SkillsUSA. ?We look forward to being back in Louisville. As we plan for our continued growth, we know we will need larger convention facilities and over 6,000 hotel rooms nearby. Louisville meets those needs



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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by im2kull »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: This is one:
The rooms situation was not the "sole" reason.
http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/677895-p2.html

Wal-Mart officials had toured Kemper Arena with him recently, he said, and appeared agreeable to expanding the event’s merchandise exhibit to that building for the first time. The show already consumes all of Bartle Hall and Municipal Auditorium.

“We had a nonbinding letter of agreement they would meet in Kansas City through 2012,” McGaskey said.

Part of the problem, McGaskey said, is that Wal-Mart last year compressed its event by several days into one meeting instead of back-to-back sessions. That sharply increased the need for more rooms as well as the need for more show floor space.
The shows are closed to the public.

“We knew when we booked them the day would come when they would outgrow us,” Lucas said


And one concerning FFA:
KC out of the running for next FFA convention deal
By RICK ALM
The Kansas City Star
Kansas City has missed making another big convention’s short list.

Kansas City Convention and Visitors Association spokesman Alan Carr said that the FFA advised the city Friday it had narrowed its choice of 2013-19 convention sites to Indianapolis or Louisville, Ky. Nashville, Tenn., and Minneapolis were apparently also eliminated.

“This was a monster convention,” said Carr. It was expected to draw up to 60,000 attendees and annual spending of $48.7 million.

Carr said FFA officials reported that Kansas City’s facilities and hotel rooms met the organization’s minimum requirements but might not in a few years as the organization grows.

He said the group was most concerned with the size of Bartle Hall and adequate parking downtown.

The FFA’s youth membership and adult advisers met in Kansas City for 71 consecutive years but left for Louisville in 1999. The event moved to Indianapolis in 2005, where it will remain through 2012.

When the blue-jacketed youths left Kansas City nine years ago, the organization said at the time it had outgrown the city’s convention and hotel facilities, and expressed frustration over splitting up activities and transporting huge numbers of people between Bartle Hall and the American Royal and Kemper Arena complexes.

Last month Kansas City lost its biggest convention, SkillsUSA, when it said it would move to Louisville for 2015 through 2020. That convention first met in Kansas City in 1994 and annually ranked as the city’s largest. Last year it resulted in an estimated $14.8 million in spending by conventioneers.

The city has seen an increase in convention bookings as organizations and event planners see that the Sprint Center and other parts of the downtown revival are coming to fruition. But convention and tourism officials said the loss of SkillsUSA’s convention pointed up the need for a new downtown hotel and another Bartle Hall expansion if the city is to stay competitive.


And another:
The main reason we lost out was the lack of floor space to hold the various competitions.  For the Star article.

???The sole reason is space,” said SkillsUSA spokesman Tom Holdsworth


And from the following site:
http://www.skillsusa.org/about/louisville.shtml

?Our national conference and SkillsUSA Championships is the nation?s biggest and best showcase for career and technical education students and the skilled work force it prepares. We have an obligation to our members and sponsors to keep it growing,? said Tim Lawrence, executive director of SkillsUSA. ?We look forward to being back in Louisville. As we plan for our continued growth, we know we will need larger convention facilities and over 6,000 hotel rooms nearby. Louisville meets those needs



Now do you give up?
But...

Why Build more Future meeting space, if we don't Currently have enough rooms to accompany large conventions????

AKP...
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Re: Convention hotel proposal for P&L building (and surrounding block)

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

The point is why build only the hotel rooms when additional space is also needed? or to change the post:

Why Build more Future meeting space hotel rooms, if we don't Currently have enough rooms convention space to accompany large conventions????
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
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