OFFICIAL - Loews Convention Hotel (formerly Hyatt)

[beautyfromashes]

Was this done purposefully to discourage connection with a rival hotel across the street? The essential architectural back turn?

[TheLastGentleman]

If they wanted to disconnect from baltimore, they wouldn't have shifted the bulk of the building’s mass onto baltimore and they wouldn’t have put the restaurant space on baltimore. Having docks and garage entries on baltimore also makes sense, as it lacks the dramatic slope of 16th street.

Not having them on wyandotte also makes sense, as it would require the bottom level of the parking structure to sit on the hill the building is built on, which would make it even more visible from the crossroads as well as from the Kauffman.

In contrast, the current design tucks the garage next to the hill and places hotel functions on top

[KCPowercat]

Right for this lot it was the best option. We didn't have to out this hotel on this lot though.

Just shitty the newly built hotel that didn't use a drop of incentives and a new employee have that as their neighbor.

[TheLastGentleman]

This was the perfect site for the city to build a convention hotel. How much longer do you think the site would’ve sat, blighted, until it was privately developed? What better use could’ve possibly gone there besides part of the convention center?

Where would you have put the convention hotel instead?

[SiouxCity KCMO Man]

I don't like that currently there is no signage coming north from I-35. It looks like another office building. Is there scheduled to be signage facing south?

[DaveKCMO]

Are we totally forgetting the honkey tube, too? I know it's a convention hotel, but the ground-level experience leaves so much to be desired... especially facing the Crossroads (where it sits).

I'm sure it will be successful, just like the Downtown Marriott that precedes it.

[earthling]

^Agree about the ground level experience. It's awful. Need to keep expectations high or more will get away with it.

[TheLastGentleman]

So, how would you all improve it without damaging its functionality? I’m very curious, especially considering that even the unbuilt skyscraper version of this hotel had pretty underwhelming ground level experience as well

[horizons82]

Are we totally forgetting the honkey tube, too? I know it's a convention hotel, but the ground-level experience leaves so much to be desired... especially facing the Crossroads (where it sits).

I'm sure it will be successful, just like the Downtown Marriott that precedes it.

See I’m with TLG on this, this reads as hyperbole. So much is left desired? It’s a solid B-ish design given the strict programmatic requirements. Unless the city was willing to pony up a lot more money for subterranean parking and/or BOH functions, you’re not going to magically get much better. In my view, the garage could have eliminated the southern most row and substituted it with tenant space. If they had done that, the financiers are going to expect you to find space for the “lost” parking. Even then, what’s been built is only marginally worse for 16th street pedestrians than the Residence Inn & adjacent garage.

[KCPowercat]

So, how would you all improve it without damaging its functionality? I’m very curious, especially considering that even the unbuilt skyscraper version of this hotel had pretty underwhelming ground level experience as well

As I already mentioned a couple options of putting the loading docks and trash down a private alley through the middle of the building or put these features in an underused Truman that faces a highway or at the very least cover up the BOH docks like PAC did and it faces Broadway for goodness sake.

I understand we can't stop good in the pursuit of perfect for all stakeholders but damn, they didn't even try with this building as it relates to the crossroads neighborhood.

[normalthings]

So, how would you all improve it without damaging its functionality? I’m very curious, especially considering that even the unbuilt skyscraper version of this hotel had pretty underwhelming ground level experience as well

As I already mentioned a couple options of putting the loading docks and trash down a private alley through the middle of the building

How could they do a private alley on such a sloped site?

or put these features in an underused Truman

Wouldn't you then complain that their design wasn't forward-thinking enough in regards to a future highway cap park?

[horizons82]

Private alley: as TLG and normal things mentioned, grading doesn’t work if the alley is running E-W. If you’re going to run it N-S then you’re looking at intensive earthwork. IIRC most of what was there was rocky bluff, making it tougher to carve out than most.
Dock along Truman: I don’t know KC’s loading dock rules off the top of my head, but most jurisdictions won’t approve you if you have it too close to a non-minor intersections like you’re suggesting.

The docks are surrounded on three sides? You want a roller door I take it? That’s also in the plans that were submitted to the city two years ago. So unless the city okayed an amendment to remove those, they should be there when all is said and done.

[KCPowercat]

So, how would you all improve it without damaging its functionality? I’m very curious, especially considering that even the unbuilt skyscraper version of this hotel had pretty underwhelming ground level experience as well

As I already mentioned a couple options of putting the loading docks and trash down a private alley through the middle of the building

How could they do a private alley on such a sloped site?

Aren't the garage floors inside level? Hey maybe it wouldn't work, I'm spitballing options.

or put these features in an underused Truman

Wouldn't you then complain that their design wasn't forward-thinking enough in regards to a future highway cap park?

Well given we have a gigantor rock wall there now and zero ability to add pedestrian walkway I think being forward thinking in that respect has left the station.

[normalthings]

FYI: April 2nd is the 1st bookable date. It looks like rooms will start around $240 - $260 year-round.

Parking:
Valet: $28
Self-Parking: $22


Edit: It's annoying that Loews still refers to this hotel being in Kansas throughout their webpage.

[KCPowercat]

Private alley: as TLG and normal things mentioned, grading doesn’t work if the alley is running E-W. If you’re going to run it N-S then you’re looking at intensive earthwork. IIRC most of what was there was rocky bluff, making it tougher to carve out than most.
Dock along Truman: I don’t know KC’s loading dock rules off the top of my head, but most jurisdictions won’t approve you if you have it too close to a non-minor intersections like you’re suggesting.

Doesn't seem like we have any rules given we just built an entire block 90% loading docks. I wouldn't call Truman and Baltimore a non-minor intersection. I'd guess Baltimore will get just as much traffic as Truman.

The docks are surrounded on three sides? You want a roller door I take it? That’s also in the plans that were submitted to the city two years ago. So unless the city okayed an amendment to remove those, they should be there when all is said and done.

Roller doors are there
https://twitter.com/downtownkc/status/1 ... 28130?s=20

And they will have trucks poking out of them 99% of the time into the sidewalk.

Let's not ignore that 16th and Wyandotte is also a bad pedestrian experience.

[horizons82]

I guess I don’t get the fixation on the docks. They take up far less frontage than the garage or even the porte cochere. If you’re afraid of constant deliveries, that seems like more a city ordinance that needs to happen than some fault of the developer or the design team. Honestly as all of downtown becomes busier, this seems more and more necessary.

[KCPowercat]

The fixation is on the entire building's bad ground level interaction. The Baltimore side from 16th (so including the garage) to about 100' to Truman is just one example. Each side has it's own example

* 16th = blank garage wall
* Wyandotte = another garage entrance and porte cochere and honky tube
* Truman = big rock wall not ready for any sort of future proofing for a 670 cap.

[horizons82]

I think we're being too cute by half pretending that this: https://goo.gl/maps/XCNweJs8sQKyVMj29 is an exceptionally better pedestrian experience than what you're getting one block west. This block has some glazing from the lobby & tenant which makes it marginally better. Even then, that glazing is somewhat negated by an alley and a garage portal.

Again, a convention hotel built in this decade has a specific program you need to meet if your whole goal is being competitive against peer cities. The garage entrance I completely agree with you was unnecessary. However, you're going to have to have an off-street porte cochere and an all-weather connection to the convention center. Those are non-negotiable if you want to compete.

You've solved your own issue of the rock wall if the cap is built. By virtue of it being a cap it'd create a connection between Baltimore and Wyandotte.

[KCPowercat]

I'll take a corner retail space and what the residence inn did at ground level 100 times over what Loews did. Is it perfect? no. Not being unreasonable to ask for better than what Loews gave us.

[horizons82]

I'll take a corner retail space and what the residence inn did at ground level 100 times over what Loews did. Is it perfect? no. Not being unreasonable to ask for better than what Loews gave us.

But what in the hell are you talking about? The entire residence inn frontage is a Porte Cochere!

I’ve already agreed with you on stuff and said myself that there’s room for improvement. Not sure why you’re gaslighting what my stance is. Myself and plenty on here who actually work in the A/E industry have explained how you arrive at what we’ve got. If you want to brush that all off and say you know better, fine.