2012 Downtown Housing Report

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by FangKC »

Loftguy, is it housing, commercial, office?
KCtonic
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:24 am
Location: River Market

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by KCtonic »

FangKC wrote:Loftguy, is it housing, commercial, office?
If it's still the same developer...
"River Market West, a $13 million market-rate project developer George Birt wants to build on Third Street west of the Populous office building in the River Market. Birt has been working on the 117-unit project for several months and plans to apply for help from the remaining funds in a $10 million city bond. Most of the parking would be in the garage built for Populous. Expected monthly rents, $1,100 to $1,500."

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/10/37 ... t-all.html
loftguy
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3850
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:12 pm

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by loftguy »

KCtonic wrote:
FangKC wrote:Loftguy, is it housing, commercial, office?
If it's still the same developer...
"River Market West, a $13 million market-rate project developer George Birt wants to build on Third Street west of the Populous office building in the River Market. Birt has been working on the 117-unit project for several months and plans to apply for help from the remaining funds in a $10 million city bond. Most of the parking would be in the garage built for Populous. Expected monthly rents, $1,100 to $1,500."

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/10/37 ... t-all.html

This would be the one. No office/commercial in the development.
User avatar
Zorobabel
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by Zorobabel »

How many floors?
loftguy
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3850
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:12 pm

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by loftguy »

Zorobabel wrote:How many floors?

I don't know. But, guessing four?

I'll ask when I get the chance.
chingon
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3522
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by chingon »

Does the report include a population estimate? I can't find it. Yael had it a 19K and change.
User avatar
smh
Supporter
Posts: 4306
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Central Loop

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by smh »

loftguy wrote:
KCtonic wrote:
FangKC wrote:Loftguy, is it housing, commercial, office?
If it's still the same developer...
"River Market West, a $13 million market-rate project developer George Birt wants to build on Third Street west of the Populous office building in the River Market. Birt has been working on the 117-unit project for several months and plans to apply for help from the remaining funds in a $10 million city bond. Most of the parking would be in the garage built for Populous. Expected monthly rents, $1,100 to $1,500."

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/10/37 ... t-all.html

This would be the one. No office/commercial in the development.
I think mixed-use is almost always appropriate in a neighborhood like River Market. However, the proposed site for River Market West is one spot that I think is fine to develop as residential only, given that it is on the tail end of 3rd Street before Broadway. Hopefully the project will still front the street though and not give us another parking lot.
mgh7676
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:00 am

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by mgh7676 »

Have they released any drawings of this project? Couldn't find any on the ole intrawebs
loftguy
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3850
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:12 pm

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by loftguy »

smh wrote: I think mixed-use is almost always appropriate in a neighborhood like River Market. However, the proposed site for River Market West is one spot that I think is fine to develop as residential only, given that it is on the tail end of 3rd Street before Broadway. Hopefully the project will still front the street though and not give us another parking lot.
smh, I believe that nearly every downtown multistory should have storefront commercial. Whether office, or retail, or public/institutional space.

I would like to see it in the RiverMarket West development, too, as that part of the neighborhood would benefit and transition to more pedestrian friendly blocks, as result of retail, etc...

Unfortunately, lenders for multifamily are notoriously stingy about loaning on projects that include commercial space in the development. They feel that it adds a complication, a risk factor, to the loan in consideration.
User avatar
smh
Supporter
Posts: 4306
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Central Loop

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by smh »

loftguy wrote:
smh wrote: I think mixed-use is almost always appropriate in a neighborhood like River Market. However, the proposed site for River Market West is one spot that I think is fine to develop as residential only, given that it is on the tail end of 3rd Street before Broadway. Hopefully the project will still front the street though and not give us another parking lot.
smh, I believe that nearly every downtown multistory should have storefront commercial. Whether office, or retail, or public/institutional space.

I would like to see it in the RiverMarket West development, too, as that part of the neighborhood would benefit and transition to more pedestrian friendly blocks, as result of retail, etc...

Unfortunately, lenders for multifamily are notoriously stingy about loaning on projects that include commercial space in the development. They feel that it adds a complication, a risk factor, to the loan in consideration.
My concern is that pedestrian traffic through there is always going to be low and that any commercial space will suffer because of that. I suppose you could have some small offices or something like that... I'm all for pedestrian friendly blocks.
loftguy
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3850
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:12 pm

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by loftguy »

chingon wrote:Does the report include a population estimate? I can't find it. Yael had it a 19K and change.

The 19,000 number has been thrown around for at least 8 years. I have heard people argue that downtowns population is actually closer to 25,000
but I've not heard that anyone has commissioned a credible count.

Is there a way to mine the 2010 census for the number within the river/31st and State Line/71 hwy boundaries?
chingon
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3522
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by chingon »

Yeah, I can run that approximate area where it lines up with census tracts, I didn't know if there was a DTC estimate for 2012. Seems like the kind of thing a Downtown council would do.
KCtonic
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:24 am
Location: River Market

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by KCtonic »

Using Google Maps along with the KCMO Parcel Viewer I see the following layout in the RiverMarket

Image

The River View LLC owned property between 3rd and 4th streets just West of Populous is the proposed site for River Market West condo development. Just to the west of that building is the Atlas Transportation Group - a cab company owned by a couple in Overland Park, KS. They park their cabs and cars all over the street under the bridge which is a bit annoying if you tend to drive that way as I do each day. Just across 4th street from the proposed River Market West property is a property owned by Jeffrey Smith Investment Company from Columbia, MO. This group (mostly one guy I believe) has a bunch of places under different names. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) this was at one time to be another condo??? it's just to the west of Conover Place and includes that little road/alley on the west end of the property. Not sure what will happen with this space, but I'm pretty interested since I might be purchasing in Conover.

Anyway, If you look across the blocks on this West end of the RiverMarket it's very disjointed and with the parking lots of Conover, Richards Conover and Populous don't help. When I say disjointed I mean it would be difficult to get the kind of foot traffic you might want for some street-side commercial in that area in my opinion.
chingon
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3522
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by chingon »

loftguy wrote:
Is there a way to mine the 2010 census for the number within the river/31st and State Line/71 hwy boundaries?

18,409.


PS - DTC's 2012 report has 19,590.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by flyingember »

chingon wrote:
loftguy wrote:
Is there a way to mine the 2010 census for the number within the river/31st and State Line/71 hwy boundaries?

18,409.


PS - DTC's 2012 report has 19,590.
downtown goes to Troost.

I bet that's the difference
KCtonic
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:24 am
Location: River Market

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by KCtonic »

KCtonic wrote:
FangKC wrote:Loftguy, is it housing, commercial, office?
If it's still the same developer...
"River Market West, a $13 million market-rate project developer George Birt wants to build on Third Street west of the Populous office building in the River Market. Birt has been working on the 117-unit project for several months and plans to apply for help from the remaining funds in a $10 million city bond. Most of the parking would be in the garage built for Populous. Expected monthly rents, $1,100 to $1,500."

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/10/37 ... t-all.html
More on this in the KC Business Journal Today
The project would be in a now vacant lot west of Populous between Third and Fourth streets and between Wyandotte and Broadway.
The project contemplates making use of the nearby city-owned parking garage, where about 100 spaces could be used for Birt’s as-yet-unnamed project.
“We figured, what better way to build a project where you can get secured parking?” Birt said.
Birt estimated that the project could start in late spring.
I should have a good view of the construction from our new space in Conover. I wonder how many stories this building will be?

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... arket.html
User avatar
taxi
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2081
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:32 am
Location: North End
Contact:

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by taxi »

KCtonic wrote: I should have a good view of the construction from our new space in Conover. I wonder how many stories this building will be?

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... arket.html
It says in the article, 5 stories.
User avatar
staubio
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6958
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:17 am
Location: River Market
Contact:

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by staubio »

Yup, in the presentation to the Downtown Neighborhood Association, the River Market West project was 5 stories.

On the 2nd and Delaware, it looks like this will span Delaware with the street corridor entering the underground garage, with a courtyard built on top. Another unfortunate street vacation, but this one doesn't and can't go anywhere, so fair game.
User avatar
smh
Supporter
Posts: 4306
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Central Loop

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by smh »

staubio wrote:Yup, in the presentation to the Downtown Neighborhood Association, the River Market West project was 5 stories.

On the 2nd and Delaware, it looks like this will span Delaware with the street corridor entering the underground garage, with a courtyard built on top. Another unfortunate street vacation, but this one doesn't and can't go anywhere, so fair game.

How's that 2nd and Delaware project looking? I seem to remember some sort of standalone building in the renderings intended to be a restaurant, something like that? (APPLEBEE'S!)
User avatar
staubio
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6958
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:17 am
Location: River Market
Contact:

Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

Post by staubio »

What I've seen doesn't reference that, but I know they aren't done with planning yet. I'd be a little surprised to see that in this spot.
Post Reply