Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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cknab1
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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by cknab1 »

I would think so, It would help with the HOA dues as far as the common areas like the pool and garden. I think the dues are on the high side. Right now they are a little over 50 cents a sq.ft. every month.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:17 pm
cknab1 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:25 am
Hallmark was going to convert our clubhouse by the pool to two residences plus build a 17 story tower in 2008. But the financial collapse hit and it never happened. I haven't heard any talk about it since. They did sell the parking lots south of the Hallmark complex where Gallerie has several hundred apartments plus townhouses for rent/sell. They seem to be filling up quickly.
Do you think that current residents would support a new tower being built? I would love to see CC finally get built out.
I’m sure if you asked the residents, that the light coming in and the views of the surroundings are a key reason to live there would be a key issue with adding a neighboring building.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by FangKC »

No one has the right to a view unless they are willing to buy the air rights to all the surrounding land parcels, or that rights to a view was included in an original property covenant when that tower was built.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by Walker »

With the Sheraton still closed now could be a good time to consider a renovation. An old NOLA tower is being renovated into a Four Seasons + Residences. I could see a hotel with condos doing very well here.

https://www.nola.com/news/business/arti ... e493c.html

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by DaveKCMO »

Walker wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:15 am
With the Sheraton still closed now could be a good time to consider a renovation. An old NOLA tower is being renovated into a Four Seasons + Residences. I could see a hotel with condos doing very well here.

https://www.nola.com/news/business/arti ... e493c.html
I'm into this concept as a way to restart the condo market in KCMO! The challenge with new condos has been construction defects and the resulting lawsuits. Shouldn't be an issue with this since the skywalk was obviously fixed once before.

:cry:

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by DColeKC »

On the topic of a target going into Crown Center. I still have hope we will get a smaller target downtown and not a full sized one that will attract the suburban folks. I think living close to a Target is cool but having one literally attached to your building may actually be a turn off for some?

Regardless, DT needs a target so bad, I’ll accept anywhere on or close to the streetcar line.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by flyingember »

DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:17 pm
On the topic of a target going into Crown Center. I still have hope we will get a smaller target downtown and not a full sized one that will attract the suburban folks. I think living close to a Target is cool but having one literally attached to your building may actually be a turn off for some?

Regardless, DT needs a target so bad, I’ll accept anywhere on or close to the streetcar line.
Why is is bad to bring in suburban folks? Is it bad for a store to have customers from conventions and other events?

You do realize the suburbs start just east of Troost in most places? They were called Streetcar Suburbs for a reason. If you want to discourage suburban folks it could look biased towards middle class white people only.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:03 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:17 pm
On the topic of a target going into Crown Center. I still have hope we will get a smaller target downtown and not a full sized one that will attract the suburban folks. I think living close to a Target is cool but having one literally attached to your building may actually be a turn off for some?

Regardless, DT needs a target so bad, I’ll accept anywhere on or close to the streetcar line.
Why is is bad to bring in suburban folks? Is it bad for a store to have customers from conventions and other events?

You do realize the suburbs start just east of Troost in most places? They were called Streetcar Suburbs for a reason. If you want to discourage suburban folks it could look biased towards middle class white people only.
I would think suburban parking requirements would be a big reason not to.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:33 pm
Walker wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:15 am
With the Sheraton still closed now could be a good time to consider a renovation. An old NOLA tower is being renovated into a Four Seasons + Residences. I could see a hotel with condos doing very well here.

https://www.nola.com/news/business/arti ... e493c.html
I'm into this concept as a way to restart the condo market in KCMO! The challenge with new condos has been construction defects and the resulting lawsuits. Shouldn't be an issue with this since the skywalk was obviously fixed once before.

:cry:
It’s my understanding that most lawsuits are over, facade, windows, structure, and roof. Renovating the Sheraton knocks out a bunch of the biggest risk for the constructors.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by earthling »

La Fuente Mexican Street Food replacing Crayola Cafe. The family is from Mexico City.
https://cityscenekc.com/crown-center-sh ... esadillas/

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by dukuboy1 »

normalthings wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:19 pm
flyingember wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:03 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:17 pm
On the topic of a target going into Crown Center. I still have hope we will get a smaller target downtown and not a full sized one that will attract the suburban folks. I think living close to a Target is cool but having one literally attached to your building may actually be a turn off for some?

Regardless, DT needs a target so bad, I’ll accept anywhere on or close to the streetcar line.
Why is is bad to bring in suburban folks? Is it bad for a store to have customers from conventions and other events?

You do realize the suburbs start just east of Troost in most places? They were called Streetcar Suburbs for a reason. If you want to discourage suburban folks it could look biased towards middle class white people only.
I would think suburban parking requirements would be a big reason not to.
I would not worry about the suburban people in making a decision on a Target to serve downtown/midtown. Unless they make it a "destination" with unique offerings of amenities and retail products, this is a non-issue. It will be nice for the residents, visitors, and workers in the area but that is their market.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by flyingember »

dukuboy1 wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:28 pm
normalthings wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:19 pm
flyingember wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:03 pm


Why is is bad to bring in suburban folks? Is it bad for a store to have customers from conventions and other events?

You do realize the suburbs start just east of Troost in most places? They were called Streetcar Suburbs for a reason. If you want to discourage suburban folks it could look biased towards middle class white people only.
I would think suburban parking requirements would be a big reason not to.
I would not worry about the suburban people in making a decision on a Target to serve downtown/midtown. Unless they make it a "destination" with unique offerings of amenities and retail products, this is a non-issue. It will be nice for the residents, visitors, and workers in the area but that is their market.
If the goal is to drive access to shopping by bus we should expect a huge shift to a downtown Target since zero of their stores in the northland are accessible by transit today

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by dukuboy1 »

Perhaps, you are correct. I live in the Northland and we have 4 Targets. The one at I-35 & Chouteau there is a bus stop to that shopping area. Also The Target at Barry Rd & 169, there are a few stops along Barry by that shopping area. Liberty area "Super Target" does not have transit stops to my knowledge. The final Target by I29 and HWy 152 shopping area has some bus transit close by, even a Metro Center. But nothing that is close enough to say that location has direct transit service close by. So 2 of the 4 have transit within reasonable/easy distance to store front (one block or less in distance to store front).

I agree that Target downtown would certainly spur residents from the nearby Westside & Eastside neighborhoods to visit it more often. To the west you have retail along 18th Street by Roeland Park, Walmart, no Target. To the East is a vast Wasteland until you get into Independence. Downtown Target would be a boon for the residents from the East side, along with those in the downtown/midtown core itself.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by DaveKCMO »

Walmart drives a lot of bus trips locally, especially during the pandemic -- Village West, South KC, Blue Ridge Crossing, Boardwalk Square.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by FangKC »

You can get to the Target at I-35 and Chouteau from downtown via the 11 bus, and then transfer to the 21 bus at St. John and Belmont or Chouteau and Front St. Before COVID shut down the route, you could also take the 235 bus through North Kansas City to the same Target without a transfer.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by flyingember »

FangKC wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:26 pm
You can get to the Target at I-35 and Chouteau from downtown via the 11 bus, and then transfer to the 21 bus at St. John and Belmont or Chouteau and Front St. Before COVID shut down the route, you could also take the 235 bus through North Kansas City to the same Target without a transfer.
I missed those routes but the Ride KC Next plan includes canceling both those routes

https://ridekc.org/planning/ridekc-next

Guess it doesn't drive many bus trips

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by dukuboy1 »

Transit is certainly under utilized in the Northland. Most have transportation but i feel for those who do not, as they are left with very few options. I work downtown, and I would use a park & ride rail system if we had it. That's why I am excited about a potential route of the street car in NKC, running along Burlington and connecting to the current system. Having it perhaps run to a park & ride facility as it northern terminus would be cool. Dare to dream :)

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by flyingember »

dukuboy1 wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:49 pm
Transit is certainly under utilized in the Northland. Most have transportation but i feel for those who do not, as they are left with very few options. I work downtown, and I would use a park & ride rail system if we had it. That's why I am excited about a potential route of the street car in NKC, running along Burlington and connecting to the current system. Having it perhaps run to a park & ride facility as it northern terminus would be cool. Dare to dream :)
The biggest problem is zero busses start in the northland and even reach the Plaza. when it was setup as it's own isolated bus network that majority ended inside the loop it was purposefully limiting demand. Every northland route should be part of a route south of the river from end to end.

For years I had a bus stop within two blocks of my home and one next to the building I worked in. Proximity wasn't a problem. I did the math and to get to/from work would have taken 1.5-2.0 hours. Driving took 30 minutes with traffic. One transfer was probably inevitable, the second one wasn't. It was by design and added so much time it wasn't worth it.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by dukuboy1 »

honestly KC has never really planned anything correctly when it came to infrastructure, transit, etc for the Northland. It was treated as most rural, low population, which it was for most of the city's historical growth South, East, and West as it runs into Johnson County. The Northland residents take some blame as well, as they liked the independent spirit of sorts. wanting to remain a sleepy little corner of the METRO. Without major Corporate businesses it was allowed to be this way. I grew up here, as a kid since 1976. My dad was a Professor at UMKC. But most people either worked downtown, or at Ford or TWA. The airport was it as for attractions and it just never took off despite the highways and such. So with this the city never really thought mass transit, as it was the suburbs. That is changing and the population density is changing but there is still some much room here to add population transit is still low, as I'd say 90-95% residents have vehicles to get them around. The Northland is the next big "boom" area for KC to grow the city's population and expand it's tax base. I hope they can tap into it to provide a better KC for all residents. But it was cost some investment for sure, as they neglected it for some many years prior.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by empires228 »

DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:17 pm
On the topic of a target going into Crown Center. I still have hope we will get a smaller target downtown and not a full sized one that will attract the suburban folks. I think living close to a Target is cool but having one literally attached to your building may actually be a turn off for some?

Regardless, DT needs a target so bad, I’ll accept anywhere on or close to the streetcar line.
The third floor of the old Halls building is basically not used... Part of it is “Lunch Land” for field trip groups. The problem is is that it’s not super easy to get up there at this time. It is also looking like the New New Halls is going to be mostly across from
The theater at the top of the north escalators, so that space would be available for Target to use too, which does have direct access to the mall garage.

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