Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
alejandro46
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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by alejandro46 »

Having all elevators down sounds like a violation of the ADAA. I know for a fact that there are 24x7 annual maintenance contracts with Kone and others that can some out right away in the event of elevator breakages. If the management is deliberately lagging on repair they are violating the law.
Last edited by alejandro46 on Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by herrfrank »

dukuboy1 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:22 pm
geez, they should call the local News stations. They would be all over that story. Hell stop by Channel 4, it very close. Feel sorry for them, No way someone in their 90's should walk up that many stairs. I would think the risk of a law suit if they fell would get this resolved yesterday. That management group should offer to put them up in a hotel vs. risk them falling or having a heart attack from climbing the stairs. Plus wouldn't this be a building code violation leaving them not working for so long?
I recommended my buddy call Angie Ricono from the CBS affiliate. And I misstated Mr. Gates age upthread. He is in his 80s. Still -- 28 flights ?

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by normalthings »

herrfrank wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:34 am
Crown Center's "crown jewel," San Francisco Tower has been without elevator service for the past three days. All three elevators (two standard passenger, one oversized freight) are inoperable.

A certain nonagenarian, nine-figure millionaire who owns a fast food empire and lives on the 28th floor is reportedly LIVID. He's had to climb twenty-eight flights of stairs for two evenings in a row. My friend, also on an upper floor, has tried to reach the Star's City Desk for publicity, but no one answers the phone (sad). Crown Center recently replaced the building management. Whoops...
Are you talking about the move to Copaken Brooks or did they drop them already?

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by cknab1 »

They still have Copaken but they are not happy with them. Our board kept Curry, which is now First Service. The HOA Board of each building selects the management company not Crown Center. Crown Center does own and manage the parking garage that we share. Haven't really heard about the elevators being out over there. Our maintenance said one was out for repair. And they are going to rehab their elevators next year. We did ours last year. Very expensive.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by cknab1 »

Just heard from 2 residents there, one elevator has been down but is now repaired, and there is a 1.2 million dollar refurbish project on the books.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by StL_Dan »

I've been to CC more times than I can remember since the early/mid 90's. Most recently stopped in for free parking last Saturday night with the family just to get out and walk around a bit since we haven't been there since the Christmas season began.

CC has always always seemed a little depressing to me. I'm not sure why, but it has. Most likely because whenever we find a way to get down to that part of the city, all the shops are closed. So, it's basically like walking around the old Great Mall of the Great Plains looking past door cages and through windows at stuff I have no chance to look at closer or buy.

So, we walked over to the fountains, toy area and up onto the ice terrace level and peoplewatched. It always seems a bit darker than it should be, for whatever reason, in the area between CC and the ice terrace/Legoland area, as well. I think more light would be good - although maybe they are dimmed this time of year to emphasize the Christmas lights, which are pretty cool.

Anyway, we are downtown a lot just to hang out and walk/eat/chill out, and CC is always our last choice for destination. I wish it wasn't, which would mean it had more to offer inside & outside for extended hours - especially on weekend evenings. But, that is why we spend so much time in the Crossroads - Mission Taco, Messenger Coffee, Los Tules, etc and the Rivermarket for Blueline or KC Taco Co. Heck, we are at Libery Memorial and Scout at least once a month for air and the views, but never go to CC before or after for anything.

One thing I noticed, though, is Unforked and Sheridans moved into the first floor of CC. I had no idea Jim was going to open location there after pulling up stakes in Olathe and OP. Kudos to him for investing in CC and downtown. That might be enough to get me back there this spring/summer.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by empires228 »

I'm surprised that no one is talking about Halls basically going kaput.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by DaveKCMO »

empires228 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:18 pm
I'm surprised that no one is talking about Halls basically going kaput.
I have friends who used to work there. End of an era.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by TheLastGentleman »

I’ve actually been pretty pleased with how crown center was doing before covid. Felt like a lot of the old kitch was being cleared out for more sophisticated things. The new Westin lobby, Unforked, Shang Tea’s new place, Halls, ect. I really hope covid doesn’t do CC in, because it seemed to be turning in the right direction

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by FangKC »

The primary reason I used to go to CC was the movie theater, so once that was gone I had little reason to go. I did go to Legoland and Sea Life when they opened. I used to enjoy the model car store, and the model railroading store, but they are long gone.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by flyingember »

StL_Dan wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:57 pm
One thing I noticed, though, is Unforked and Sheridans moved into the first floor of CC. I had no idea Jim was going to open location there after pulling up stakes in Olathe and OP. Kudos to him for investing in CC and downtown. That might be enough to get me back there this spring/summer.

Unforked opened there four years ago. It was impossible to not know, they announced it a year prior and had signs up for months.

Sheridans moved to their spot even further back, it's been so long I forget when it was.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by StL_Dan »

flyingember wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:21 am
StL_Dan wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:57 pm
One thing I noticed, though, is Unforked and Sheridans moved into the first floor of CC. I had no idea Jim was going to open location there after pulling up stakes in Olathe and OP. Kudos to him for investing in CC and downtown. That might be enough to get me back there this spring/summer.

Unforked opened there four years ago. It was impossible to not know, they announced it a year prior and had signs up for months.

Sheridans moved to their spot even further back, it's been so long I forget when it was.
Goes to show how far down the priority list CC is for me.

I do feel a slight bit of shame for being unaware.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by flyingember »

StL_Dan wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:52 pm
flyingember wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:21 am
StL_Dan wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:57 pm
One thing I noticed, though, is Unforked and Sheridans moved into the first floor of CC. I had no idea Jim was going to open location there after pulling up stakes in Olathe and OP. Kudos to him for investing in CC and downtown. That might be enough to get me back there this spring/summer.

Unforked opened there four years ago. It was impossible to not know, they announced it a year prior and had signs up for months.

Sheridans moved to their spot even further back, it's been so long I forget when it was.
Goes to show how far down the priority list CC is for me.

I do feel a slight bit of shame for being unaware.
clearly you've been there less times than you can remember

We would try to make at least a yearly visit, usually seasonally. We're more likely to hit union station and walk over on the sky bridges than drive and try to find parking twice. So we have to feel like making that walk.

The Coterie tends to draw us there if anything will.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by Midtownkid »

empires228 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:18 pm
I'm surprised that no one is talking about Halls basically going kaput.
I love Halls. Shop there all the time, especially their sales. I wouldn't say it's going kaput. The home and beauty supply sections are going kaput. The clothing selection is actually going to be expanded. If you don't currently shop there and like nice shit, make sure you do!

It is surprising that they are going to shrink the store, eliminating the 'Bridge' section. They spent so much money on the Bridge area and even removed some concrete panels from the facade to give killer views of downtown.

I hope they have some use in mind for that area.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by StL_Dan »

flyingember wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:47 am
StL_Dan wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:52 pm
flyingember wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:21 am



Unforked opened there four years ago. It was impossible to not know, they announced it a year prior and had signs up for months.

Sheridans moved to their spot even further back, it's been so long I forget when it was.
Goes to show how far down the priority list CC is for me.

I do feel a slight bit of shame for being unaware.
clearly you've been there less times than you can remember

We would try to make at least a yearly visit, usually seasonally. We're more likely to hit union station and walk over on the sky bridges than drive and try to find parking twice. So we have to feel like making that walk.

The Coterie tends to draw us there if anything will.
You could be right.

We do have reservations to ice skate Tuesday night at the ice terrace. Should be fun.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by Chris Stritzel »

Midtownkid wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:35 am
I love Halls. Shop there all the time, especially their sales. I wouldn't say it's going kaput. The home and beauty supply sections are going kaput. The clothing selection is actually going to be expanded. If you don't currently shop there and like nice shit, make sure you do!

It is surprising that they are going to shrink the store, eliminating the 'Bridge' section. They spent so much money on the Bridge area and even removed some concrete panels from the facade to give killer views of downtown.

I hope they have some use in mind for that area.
I went to Halls today to buy some things on sale. It's so empty now. The cashier lady who checked me out said they'll be closing for a few days to condense everything into the Bridge area and where the escalators come up near the cafe. She then says the rest of the store will undergo renovations until March and will reopen with a focus on clothing (as you said). I asked why they were getting rid of home and beauty supply stuff and she said "from what I could tell, we didn't really sell that much in those departments and had sales often in those departments".

She wasn't sure how the store would end up looking after renovations are complete.

I do wonder if they'll move "Kid Oh" upstairs since that is part of the "Halls Family". That would take up some space in Halls and open up another retail space in the mall portion to something else.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by empires228 »

Chris Stritzel wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:48 am
Midtownkid wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:35 am
I love Halls. Shop there all the time, especially their sales. I wouldn't say it's going kaput. The home and beauty supply sections are going kaput. The clothing selection is actually going to be expanded. If you don't currently shop there and like nice shit, make sure you do!

It is surprising that they are going to shrink the store, eliminating the 'Bridge' section. They spent so much money on the Bridge area and even removed some concrete panels from the facade to give killer views of downtown.

I hope they have some use in mind for that area.
I went to Halls today to buy some things on sale. It's so empty now. The cashier lady who checked me out said they'll be closing for a few days to condense everything into the Bridge area and where the escalators come up near the cafe. She then says the rest of the store will undergo renovations until March and will reopen with a focus on clothing (as you said). I asked why they were getting rid of home and beauty supply stuff and she said "from what I could tell, we didn't really sell that much in those departments and had sales often in those departments".

She wasn't sure how the store would end up looking after renovations are complete.

I do wonder if they'll move "Kid Oh" upstairs since that is part of the "Halls Family". That would take up some space in Halls and open up another retail space in the mall portion to something else.
What the store manager told me is that they're basically pairing it down to a 5,000 ft2 primarily women's boutique. He said they will have 7,000 ft2 available to them to use if they eventually need it. By comparison, the current store is just over 50,000 ft2. He also said that they're be moving to the old store while they renovate rather than the bridge. They were waiting for gift wrap to finish up for xmas to start moving everything over there. They were hoping to be open in the space by today at the time. Everyone in there knew that this is just the next step in Hallmark killing off Halls, the longtime loss leader for Crown Center from the 90s onward. It's no secret that the store down at the Plaza was the moneymaker of the two. My bets would be on Crayola or Function Junction being the next major tenant to die off based on traffic patterns I've seen the past two holiday seasons now.

The most popular tenants in there by far are Hallmark, Chips Chocolate Factory, Fritz's, Sheridan's, Spin, and Unforked. The current vacancies are the salon, the smaller BBQ restaurant, the smaller Mexican restaurant, D'Bronx, part of Milano, Einstein Bros (they took down the temp closed sign and seem to have removed most of the innards), the old third floor of Halls, and soon to be the old third floor mall portion of the current Halls after they reopen on the bridge. Getting the old Crayola Cafe filled with that Mexican restaurant is going to help, but the Crayola store itself is a big dead space. They need to update it and refresh it if they want it to be a draw again. They often have products in there that are several years old, and while they don't really expire, the packaging is often faded, they aren't discounted, and then the place as a whole looks the same as it did in 2001.Same displays, décor, carpet, etc. The Kid Oh section is nice, but you never really see anyone besides bored employees in there either. I remember being down there for Iris Fest and Hallmarket in 2019 and Hallmark was packed while the other three Crayola entities were pretty devoid of life despite lines at the restaurants and a few acts putting on free shows in what is now the Starbucks court. One of the greatest failures in the design of the complex is not having the visitor center and Kaleidoscope be right in the center with the shops and ice terrace. They're not a far walk by any means, but for your the average tourist who isn't familiar with Crown Center as a complex, it's a mess to navigate on a first trip in modern times due to all of the various changes made to the third floor of the shopping mall and the old Halls building. Having recently walked over there and back to kill time, I noticed that not all of the informational signs have been reflected to show all the changes made since 2012. Several still infer to features like valet parking that haven't existing in a decade and such.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by cknab1 »

Burnt End BBQ occupies the other part of Milano and they are doing fairly well. It's priced right and easy in and out. It's part of the PB&J family and they also operate the Starbucks. The Halls pop up store will reopen Jan.2nd on the 3rd floor of the old Halls building. It's really going to seem isolated off by itself. I think the thought of the visitors or Kaleidoscope is a great idea.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by beautyfromashes »

Fritzs should expand. Maybe take over the Einstein’s space. It’s often packed with a line to get in.

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Re: Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

Unsure how receptive an American audience would be to the idea, but I’ve seen many examples of shopping malls throughout Europe converting what we’re once department store anchor spaces into grocery/supermarket spaces. It’s saved many malls in the area of Italy I’m currently in, even generating enough revenue that one of the malls is actually expanding rn. I know that CC isn’t a mall in the general sense of the suburban style of malls, but it could fill a void within the area, increase foot traffic into the area, and provide a much needed amenity to the local community. Again, it would be an interesting sell to the American crowd, as it isn’t super prevalent in the U.S., but it is a viable use to the space.
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