18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
User avatar
GRID
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14539
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by GRID »

The site will now be a farm.

Yippie.

http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/1089952.html

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12265
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Sounds like a good project, a positive way to bank the land until demand is there for development.  If it is good for NYC then it should be good for KC.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

User avatar
GRID
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14539
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by GRID »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Sounds like a good project, a positive way to bank the land until demand is there for development.  If it is good for NYC then it should be good for KC.
It's fine.  I would have just rather seen the tower go up.  I think the Crossroads area is so underutilized and overrated.  It needs more density. It doesn't have to be 17 story 500k condos either.  But grass and tomatoes?  I guess it’s better than a parking lot.

DST needs to learn how to stop tearing shit down before they have a solid plan to develop it.

kcdcchef
The Quiet Chair
The Quiet Chair
Posts: 8804
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:48 pm
Location: pittsburgh, pennsylvania

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by kcdcchef »

GRID wrote: It's fine.  I would have just rather seen the tower go up.  I think the Crossroads area is so underutilized and overrated.  It needs more density. It doesn't have to be 17 story 500k condos either.  But grass and tomatoes?  I guess it’s better than a parking lot.

DST needs to learn how to stop tearing shit down before they have a solid plan to develop it.
seriously, is there anything, ANYTHING, coming down the pipes right now? is it just the PAC and that is it? i know this is grounded, and dead, both p&l towers, cordish and non cordish, are both dead, right? is anything coming down the pipes at all??

only hope for new construction in kc right now is hallmark / crown center doing something new, and dst doing something else on west side,. i still dont get why those fuckers tore down the carlton towers on the west side to put a fucking garden in. it was always well occupied. no point to destroy it to grow TOMATOES!!!!
MU FINISHED THE YEAR RANKED HIGHER IN HOOPS AND FOOTBALL THAN THE KAY U JAYDORKS. UP YOURS KAY U JAYDORK FANS!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

User avatar
GRID
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14539
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by GRID »

kcdcchef wrote: seriously, is there anything, ANYTHING, coming down the pipes right now? is it just the PAC and that is it? i know this is grounded, and dead, both p&l towers, cordish and non cordish, are both dead, right? is anything coming down the pipes at all??

only hope for new construction in kc right now is hallmark / crown center doing something new, and dst doing something else on west side,. i still dont get why those fuckers tore down the carlton towers on the west side to put a fucking garden in. it was always well occupied. no point to destroy it to grow TOMATOES!!!!
Yea, nothing says "ghetto" more than a "community garden".  That means the land is totally worthless.

But to answer your question.

To the best of my knowledge, nothing.  Not a single thing.  Not even a tiny little 3 story six unit building.  There are a couple of projects pretty far along in the river market and a reno near the PAC, and that's it.  There is nothing even on the radar screen and everything that was has been totally shelved, if not permanently canceled.

If the economy turned around tomorrow and we got a new group at city hall, it would still take several years before things started to get built again.  There is NOTHING in the pipeline.

I have never seen anything like it.

CC isn't doing anything; they won't break ground on anything for at least 5-10 years.  Even the plaza is pretty much done.  They will soon tear down a perfectly good urban neighborhood for a project that may or may not happen there as well.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4977
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by beautyfromashes »

Five people control all of the Crossroads and are artificially pumping up the prices.  Until they realize that they're asking too much for space then it will continue to be stagnant.  I think they anticipate markets turning around in the near future and they will get their asking prices.  So, get used to what the area looks like now, it probably will look the same in two years.

kcdcchef
The Quiet Chair
The Quiet Chair
Posts: 8804
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:48 pm
Location: pittsburgh, pennsylvania

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by kcdcchef »

funny thing about development though, shit just happens outta nowhere. and no one knows it is coming, or sees it coming. it just happens. if this new DT and PAC along with sprint center help the fortunes of dtkcmo, when the economy gets itself together dont be suuprised if new shit gets thrown up fast.
MU FINISHED THE YEAR RANKED HIGHER IN HOOPS AND FOOTBALL THAN THE KAY U JAYDORKS. UP YOURS KAY U JAYDORK FANS!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12265
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

GRID wrote: Yea, nothing says "ghetto" more than a "community garden".  That means the land is totally worthless.
From Wiki:

In Canada and the United States, "community gardening" encompasses a wide variety of approaches. Some influential community gardens, such as the Clinton Street garden in the middle of Manhattan in New York City, and the Peralta garden in Berkeley, California, inspired by architect and community garden visionary Karl Linn, are gathering places for neighbors and showcases for art and ecological awareness, with food production cherished but seen as one part of a much larger vision. Other gardens resemble European "allotment" gardens, with plots where individuals and families can grow vegetables and flowers, including a number (for instance, in Minneapolis and Ann Arbor, Michigan) which began as "Victory Gardens" during World War II. Even such "food" gardens are very different, however — for instance, plot sizes range widely from as small as 1.5m × 1.5m (5 ft × 5 ft) in some inner city gardens and art gardens, such as the Dovetail Garden in Charlotte, North Carolina, to relatively large plots of 15m × 15m (50ft × 50ft) such as those at Hilton Head, South Carolina.

Some community gardens, in contrast, are devoted entirely to creating ecological green space or habitat, still others to growing flowers, and others to education or providing access to gardening to those who otherwise could not have a garden, such as the elderly, recent immigrants or the homeless — for example, the Community Garden for the Homeless, also in Charlotte, not far away from the very different Dovetail Garden. Some gardens are worked as community farms with no individual plots at all, shading into becoming urban farms.

In short, the key word to describe the United States is "diversity."

That said, a majority of gardens in a majority of community gardening programs are collections of individual garden plots, frequently between 3m × 3m (10'×10') and 6m × 6m (20'×20'). This holds true whether they are sponsored by public agencies such as Park and Recreation Districts (Portland, Oregon; Toronto, Canada), city departments (Seattle, Washington — perhaps the model community gardening program in the US), large non-profits, or (most commonly) a coalition of different entities and groups, Whether the garden is run as a coop by the gardeners themselves (still common in New York, Boston and other East Coast cities) or managed by a public or non-profit agency, plot holders typically are asked to pay a modest fee each year and abide by a set of rules. Many gardens also encourage activities such as work days, fundraisers, and social gatherings. Community garden organizers typically say that "growing community" is as important as growing vegetables, or, as the American Community Gardening Association (ACGA) puts it: "In community gardening, "community" comes first."

Equally important, according to ACGA, is encouraging political involvement. As storied New York community gardener Adam Honigman puts it: "Community gardening is 50% gardening and 100% local political organizing." Community gardens are more than a meeting ground — they are also a training ground for political empowerment. In a sense, as Karl Linn pointed out, they are the 21st Century version of the New England village green, common space that brings people together and inspires shared action.

ACGA, a non-profit coalition founded in 1979, is the primary advocacy group for community gardening in the US and Canada. After many years of being hosted by the community garden support program Philadelphia Green in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, ACGA is now based at the Franklin Park Conservatory in Columbus, Ohio.

Although community gardening exists across northern North America, it remains strongest in the Northeast, where literally thousands of community gardens grow in New York City, Philadelphia and Boston. It is also strong along the West Coast, especially in British Columbia, and in Midwestern centers such as Chicago and Minneapolis.



If it is good enough for the middle of Manhattan then maybe it is good for KC.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

cdm2p
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 664
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:14 pm

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by cdm2p »

I rather see a garden than a shitty project built to cash flow during these tough economic times.
Besides, this is DST.  I doubt it will be a sloppy operation.

User avatar
blackbird
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:45 pm
Location: WP

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by blackbird »

GRID wrote: The site will now be a farm.

Yippie.
This site is going to be much more than what the article indicates.  The first phase is a HUGE stormwater mitigation project that will mean the freighthouse area will be spared much of the flooding that occurs during storms.  The site is supposed to be a block-large demonstration project on sustainable urban practices, which is something this city isn't exactly teeming with.

In addition to the stormwater mitigation and rain gardens, there is also going to be 6 net-zero energy townhomes built on the site.  All streetlights and garden lights will be solar powered.  The parking lot is going to be redone with permeable pavement and a green roof, as well as initial plans to include publicly accessible alternative fuels pumps and bike parking.  They're working with the owners of the residential unit at 17th and Central to potentially retrofit the building to be more energy efficient.  For the community garden part, they're trying to figure out the best way to involve the downtown restaurants with composting and potentially selling food to them that is grown in those plots.  Doesn't get much more local than that.

I understand that everyone wants to see more density, but there are plenty of buildings that are for sale that would be prime for renovation.  I don't understand why people would be upset at someone doing something smart with land instead of building another condo project that could sit empty as well.  As was stated in the article, they're planning this in such a way that when the economy turns around, they can still build the building without losing a lot of the benefits of the site (mainly the stormwater mitigation).  This project will get people using the land again.  Seems like a win-win to me.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Ambassador
Posts: 18110
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by DaveKCMO »

i'm a crossroads resident and i like it, especially if the local restaurants (of which there are many) start using the produce.

"this was a pizza hut, now it's all covered in daisies..."

User avatar
KCMax
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 24051
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
Contact:

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by KCMax »

cdm2p wrote: I rather see a garden than a shitty project built to cash flow during these tough economic times.
Besides, this is DST.  I doubt it will be a sloppy operation.
Agreed. In these economic times I don't think we should be at all surprised the tower was scrapped. A community garden is infinitely better than a surface parking lot, or worse yet, an abandoned field. I think its a cool idea. Kudos to DST.
SAVE THE PLAZA - FROM ZOMBIES! Find out how at:

http://twitter.com/TheKCRag

User avatar
GRID
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14539
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by GRID »

blackbird wrote: This site is going to be much more than what the article indicates... 
Sounds good and it should put the land to good use.

I understand the whole economy thing and let my  passion for a better “built environment” get the best of me at times.  I really wanted to see that tower happen because I think the Crossroads area needs something like that to take the area to the next level and right now, the crossroads area is very underutilized, especially outside the 5 block area of 20th and Baltimore.

Wouldn’t something like this be better where more people could interact with it like at the old PCB site?  I’m sure that site has a lot of issues, plus DST doesn’t own it.

I just think that 17th and Broadway it the absolute perfect place for a high density tower that would help connect Downtown with Crown Center while not putting too much pressure on the heart of the crossroads.

I am glad DST is doing something productive and innovative with the land, but am slightly disappointed that we can’t get any new construction high density residential going in this town.  As soon as we can get ONE new tower up, I think it will set off a trend.

User avatar
chrizow
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 17076
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:43 am

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by chrizow »

this is great.  i wish all of KC's vacant land could be farmed.  sometimes i think KC would be better of forging a new identity as a forward-thinking, green, urban-agricultural based area than trying to be the next Charlotte or Denver (or whatever we think we're doing). 

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12265
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

It's a shame that the KC area doesn't have more community gardens, not just in the downtown area but throughout the urban core.  They are a great way to interact with neighbors, meet new friends, get community news, and so on.  For those of you who hate surface parking lots wouldn't these gardens be a nice replacement for some of them?  Or even on the roofs of some buildings?
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

User avatar
Midtownkid
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2818
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
Location: Roanoke, KCMO

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by Midtownkid »

I also think this is a great idea.  I mean, yeah having the old building still there, or even new lofts might be better...but this is WAY better than a surface lot of unused space.  We lost one small garden to Helzberg's new parking garage....we gained an even larger one.  Now we have to see how they edge this lot.  A nice fence or better yet some sort of hedge would be great.  Hope they make it look really nice, not sloppy.  It will be redeveloped within 10 years I'm sure.  The whole area surrounding the PAC will change within the next 10 years.  It will be fun to watch.
Check out KC Kids Comics! http://www.kckidscomics.webs.com/

User avatar
chrizow
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 17076
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:43 am

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by chrizow »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: It's a shame that the KC area doesn't have more community gardens, not just in the downtown area but throughout the urban core.  They are a great way to interact with neighbors, meet new friends, get community news, and so on. 
there are a handful around town, but the more the merrier.  there are also some "guerilla gardens" on vacant lots in the hyde park/squier park/longfellow area, but they dont seem to last long since animals get to the plants.

KC-wildcat
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3528
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:54 am
Location: UMKC Law

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by KC-wildcat »

GRID wrote:
I just think that 17th and Broadway it the absolute perfect place for a high density tower that would help connect Downtown with Crown Center while not putting too much pressure on the heart of the crossroads.

I am glad DST is doing something productive and innovative with the land, but am slightly disappointed that we can’t get any new construction high density residential going in this town.  As soon as we can get ONE new tower up, I think it will set off a trend.
I would love to start seeing new, high density towers in KC.  This would be a welcome trend.  However, I feel like the real "trend" is renovating abandoned warehouses (Freighthouse, SoHo, Windows) and vacant highrises (Wallstreet, Clubhouse Lofts, The View).  And currently, there remains an abundance of vacant buildings ripe for renovation.  1006 Grand is being turned into affordable living.  The Pickwick Terminal reno is being discussed.  Broadway has various buildings that would be great as condos.  

New construction would be great.  KC Southern Apartments is on track.  East Village would be great.  Three towers in P&L would also be great.  IMO, these four parcels would be more ideal for new condo development than 17th and Broadway.  With that in mind, I believe that the 17th and Broadway parcel is a long shot for condo development at this time.  As such, what better way to develop it than installing a sustainable, innovative, aesthetically pleasing community garden.  

Of course, I would hope that if and when a dense, urban developer comes knocking, the community leaders don't protest in the name of protecting this community center.  This "development" is a stop-gap measure.  Merely an upgrade from a surface lot.  But, nothing more than undeveloped land.    

LenexatoKCMO
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14667
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Valentine

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by LenexatoKCMO »

KC-wildcat wrote: I would love to start seeing new, high density towers in KC.  This would be a welcome trend.  However, I feel like the real "trend" is renovating abandoned warehouses (Freighthouse, SoHo, Windows) and vacant highrises (Wallstreet, Clubhouse Lofts, The View).  And currently, there remains an abundance of vacant buildings ripe for renovation.  1006 Grand is being turned into affordable living.  The Pickwick Terminal reno is being discussed.  Broadway has various buildings that would be great as condos.  
Can't agree with the "abundence" part.  Renovations are the low hanging fruit - and most of ithe significant buildings with potential in the river-CC corridor have already been picked.  There are still several smaller buildings around, but unless one of the big office towers vacates, there really isn't much of size left.  If much stock is going to be added in the future, it will have to be new construction. 

KC-wildcat
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3528
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:54 am
Location: UMKC Law

18th & Broadway Community Garden + Housing

Post by KC-wildcat »

LenexatoKCMO wrote: Can't agree with the "abundence" part.  Renovations are the low hanging fruit - and most of ithe significant buildings with potential in the river-CC corridor have already been picked.  There are still several smaller buildings around, but unless one of the big office towers vacates, there really isn't much of size left.  If much stock is going to be added in the future, it will have to be new construction. 
I would bet that in the CBD, there is enough vacant square footage in warehouses or old office buildings to supply upward of 600 units (apartments or condos).  The 1006 Grand development will add about 135 units.  If Pickwick gets off the ground, about 290 units would enter the market.  The (24) story Mark Twain Tower on 11th and Baltimore is essentially empty.  This could be a huge condo/apartment reno.  The building on 11th and McGhee sits vacant.  This would add at least 100 units.  These are the building I come up with off the top of my head.  I'm sure 200+ units could be discovered elsewhere without looking too hard. 

In the end, new development in DTKC is needed.  Fortunately, if and when this time arrives, there are 3-4 parcels in and aroudn the P&L wating for development.  (2) in the district, (1) west of Power & Light building, (1) on the Republic Title lot.  Add in the east village potential, and the likelihood that a developer becomes interested in 17th and Broadway becomes virtually nill. 

Post Reply