KCRag Forum

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:00 am

Compelling architectural comparison.

However, do recognize the Steamboat museum was constructed -- with donations -- in the 1990's. At that time, River Market was dodgy, at-best. We guys would walk the ladies to their cars after a few beers at the "River Market Brewery" - out of necessity.

Further recognize the River Market was known as the "River Quay" in the 1970's and 1980's. It was riddled with mob-controlled front companies. Car bombing and contract killings were the news of that day. The rumors are that the stately old homes off Independence Avenue (near the old museum) had tunnels linking the homes. I believe it.

30 years on; the place is unrecognizable. The fact the district extended to the riverfront in astonishing in it's own right. The Hyatt Regency skywalk was disposed in that area. If you smelled a decomposing body in the railroad right-of-way; it might be a dead Opossum; or an unlucky hooker.

The Farmer's market itself was a catalyst to bringing the public into the district. Add a few pioneering stores and venues.

..And then there was the Steamboat museum.

horizons82 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:55 pm https://www.kmbc.com/article/questions- ... m/33005171

David Hawley and his dull museum are back to openly pontificate on if they should leave KC. I feel like he does this every 9-12 months?

He wants someone to build it for him. It's so out of date and needs a lot of work.

I haven't heard for awhile any update, but I know there was some interest if they'd be willing to put it into a nonprofit trust. But he wasn't willing to give up control.

It's become a fairly mediocre museum, especially for the price.

So he keeps shopping it around in the hopes that someone here will make an offer to build something new.

So far, no one is very interested.

Why not move the Steamboat Arabia to the site of the old city wharf at the foot of Main? Tie it into a restaurant/bar development on the waterfront with a steamboat replica for evening cruises. Finally you'd be able to enjoy a beer in this town while watching the river flow.

I love this idea though I know there are probably numerous hurdles to jump to do that. As muddy & junky as that river can be it’s still the main reason this city exists today. Major cities around the world have not abandoned their river fronts and we need to re-connect with ours at the original site. The Berkeley Park redevelopment is great but we need this direct connection to the market and therefore the CBD.

The more riverfront the better, as I see it

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:07 pm Why not move the Steamboat Arabia to the site of the old city wharf at the foot of Main? Tie it into a restaurant/bar development on the waterfront with a steamboat replica for evening cruises. Finally you'd be able to enjoy a beer in this town while watching the river flow.

They want to move to a place without shaking. they had issues with a rock concert. Moving next to freight trains that do the same thing daily likely isn't realistic

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:13 pm

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:07 pm Why not move the Steamboat Arabia to the site of the old city wharf at the foot of Main? Tie it into a restaurant/bar development on the waterfront with a steamboat replica for evening cruises. Finally you'd be able to enjoy a beer in this town while watching the river flow.

They want to move to a place without shaking. they had issues with a rock concert. Moving next to freight trains that do the same thing daily likely isn't realistic

Build it out on a pier.

Or find a way to cover the tracks like St. Louis did by the arch. Could be a great public works project to address the current jobs situation. Probably will have to wait for a federal administration that really does want to do a national infrastructure program.

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:30 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:13 pm

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:07 pm Why not move the Steamboat Arabia to the site of the old city wharf at the foot of Main? Tie it into a restaurant/bar development on the waterfront with a steamboat replica for evening cruises. Finally you'd be able to enjoy a beer in this town while watching the river flow.

They want to move to a place without shaking. they had issues with a rock concert. Moving next to freight trains that do the same thing daily likely isn't realistic

Build it out on a pier.

Harlem. If you're on the river you will be far enought away from the train tracks that you can build with enough dapening that the trains woun't be an issue.

The starch plant on the otherhand....

shinatoo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:29 pm

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:30 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:13 pm

They want to move to a place without shaking. they had issues with a rock concert. Moving next to freight trains that do the same thing daily likely isn't realistic

Build it out on a pier.

Harlem. If you're on the river you will be far enought away from the train tracks that you can build with enough dapening that the trains woun't be an issue.

The starch plant on the otherhand....

Building a ped bridge and having a little ferry to Harlem would be so cool!

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:30 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:13 pm

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:07 pm Why not move the Steamboat Arabia to the site of the old city wharf at the foot of Main? Tie it into a restaurant/bar development on the waterfront with a steamboat replica for evening cruises. Finally you'd be able to enjoy a beer in this town while watching the river flow.

They want to move to a place without shaking. they had issues with a rock concert. Moving next to freight trains that do the same thing daily likely isn't realistic

Build it out on a pier.

So you want to fight the federal government to move a museum to the south riverfront?


https://usace.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/ ... 0/id/12071

Go to page 55, the channel is along the south shore. (white is the channel)

Harlem, already mentioned, would be a dramatically better location for a museum. Sure, it would have a flood risk but I could see bringing in fill and elevating a new building above flood height, it's actually not that much height needed to be out of the highest risk area

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:08 am

Further recognize the River Market was known as the "River Quay" in the 1970's and 1980's. It was riddled with mob-controlled front companies. Car bombing and contract killings were the news of that day. The rumors are that the stately old homes off Independence Avenue (near the old museum) had tunnels linking the homes. I believe it.

The story I've always heard is that the wiseguys built ranch houses with tunnels up in Oakwood and wanted to also build houses there for their parents. However the mama's didn't want to leave the old neighborhood so Columbus Park ended up with quite a few suburban style houses.

flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:34 am

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:30 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:13 pm

They want to move to a place without shaking. they had issues with a rock concert. Moving next to freight trains that do the same thing daily likely isn't realistic

Build it out on a pier.

So you want to fight the federal government to move a museum to the south riverfront?


https://usace.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/ ... 0/id/12071

Go to page 55, the channel is along the south shore. (white is the channel)

Harlem, already mentioned, would be a dramatically better location for a museum. Sure, it would have a flood risk but I could see bringing in fill and elevating a new building above flood height, it's actually not that much height needed to be out of the highest risk area

Harlem may be a great location. I'm beginning to think that KC could develop Harlem along the lines of Mud Island in Memphis.

Rabble wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:35 am

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:08 am

Further recognize the River Market was known as the "River Quay" in the 1970's and 1980's. It was riddled with mob-controlled front companies. Car bombing and contract killings were the news of that day. The rumors are that the stately old homes off Independence Avenue (near the old museum) had tunnels linking the homes. I believe it.

The story I've always heard is that the wiseguys built ranch houses with tunnels up in Oakwood and wanted to also build houses there for their parents. However the mama's didn't want to leave the old neighborhood so Columbus Park ended up with quite a few suburban style houses.

Interesting. Did not know that.

The old Columbus Park community was apparently a bootleg den, too.

In the 1970's and 1980's between riots and the FBI crackdown; the mob moved en-masse to Gladstone.

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:06 am

Rabble wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:35 am

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:08 am

Further recognize the River Market was known as the "River Quay" in the 1970's and 1980's. It was riddled with mob-controlled front companies. Car bombing and contract killings were the news of that day. The rumors are that the stately old homes off Independence Avenue (near the old museum) had tunnels linking the homes. I believe it.

The story I've always heard is that the wiseguys built ranch houses with tunnels up in Oakwood and wanted to also build houses there for their parents. However the mama's didn't want to leave the old neighborhood so Columbus Park ended up with quite a few suburban style houses.

Interesting. Did not know that.

The old Columbus Park community was apparently a bootleg den, too.

In the 1970's and 1980's between riots and the FBI crackdown; the mob moved en-masse to Gladstone.

Not Gladstone but close. They lived in the Davidson neighborhood. Which is KC, but right next to Gladstone. I grew up there and was a kid in the late 70’s in that neighborhood. I played with their grand kids, as they were my age. We never suspected anything, their grandpas & uncles were nice guys

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:49 pm

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:06 am

Rabble wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:35 am

The story I've always heard is that the wiseguys built ranch houses with tunnels up in Oakwood and wanted to also build houses there for their parents. However the mama's didn't want to leave the old neighborhood so Columbus Park ended up with quite a few suburban style houses.

Interesting. Did not know that.

The old Columbus Park community was apparently a bootleg den, too.

In the 1970's and 1980's between riots and the FBI crackdown; the mob moved en-masse to Gladstone.

Not Gladstone but close. They lived in the Davidson neighborhood. Which is KC, but right next to Gladstone. I grew up there and was a kid in the late 70’s in that neighborhood. I played with their grand kids, as they were my age. We never suspected anything, their grandpas & uncles were nice guys

Any house to house tunnels that you were aware of? Or were they just a suburban legend?

The is a tunnel from a house to a carriage house on a home around 11th and Paseo. The home was supposedly built for a doctor to the mob (allegedly connected to Al Capone). It is a spectacular home.

There were alleged tunnels in the Oaks subdivision between 169 and north Oak. Just look for the houses that look like an Olive Garden.
The house on the Paseo is the Henderson House. Was in it in the eighties when they were shoveling deposits of condoms and sanitary napkins out of the carriage house SM dungeon(the house was a bordello for years). There is a cool orchestra gallery on the mid-stair landing. The interior is very french 2nd empire. Doc Henderson was a goat gland impotence cure quack.

moderne wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:09 pm There were alleged tunnels in the Oaks subdivision between 169 and north Oak. Just look for the houses that look like an Olive Garden.
The house on the Paseo is the Henderson House. Was in it in the eighties when they were shoveling deposits of condoms and sanitary napkins out of the carriage house SM dungeon(the house was a bordello for years). There is a cool orchestra gallery on the mid-stair landing. The interior is very french 2nd empire. Doc Henderson was a goat gland impotence cure quack.

I hadn't heard the dungeon/carriage house story... http://www.oldhouseweb.com/blog/generou ... son-house/

Does anybody know if the ASB Bridge has ever been considered an option for extending the street car across the Missouri? When the bridge was new the inter-urban to St. Joe ran down the center of the upper road deck.

I'm posting this question here, because while wondering around the River Market lately, I've become aware of what a great looking bridge it is. What makes it look awkward is the road deck was removed 35 years ago along with the approaches on both sides of the river. It seems like this could be a less expensive way for the streetcar to cross the river, and at the same time increase the beauty of this iconic bridge.