Tosspot wrote:
is the office underneath your loft still allowing its phones to ring interminably all night long?
Nope, they fixed that a few months before they moved out. That's the one that's empty now.
If I were rich, I'd lease it and open a cool bar in that space. I wouldn't care about the noise then since I'd be down there running it when it was open.
loftguy wrote:
The Opus Group, a development firm out of Minneapolis is taking the HOK space for their local office. They were the developer of the building.
Arnold Imaging is due to move into the building on 2nd and Walnut any moment. I think they have been delayed by needs of the business. Too busy working to take time to move.
The rents in the market are all over the place. There are spaces on Delaware for $9 per square foot annual, and there are others being marketed for $16 psf, with little significant difference in space. Has more to do with owner philosophy than anything. The Architectural Salvage space and several other underutilized spaces are owned by the occupants. They aren't paying rent and they are watching the value of their properties increase. Wish there was a way to motivate them to either do something to improve their property or to sell, take their profit and allow the neighborhood to continue improving. Ah well, that conundrum affects every part of downtown.
By the way, Cup & Saucer was not pushed out by high rents. They had locked in a very low rent rate. They got squeezed by expansion costs, renovation expenditures, a dip in the market at just the wrong time and they were just plain tired of the hard struggle to make the business work. Too damn bad. They were great people and a real asset to the RM.
You mentioned the architectural salvage building...is that the storage facility for the AS in the crossroads that somebody mentioned on 3rd and Wyandotte? And your right the Cup was much more a victim to a very poorly managed kitchen with a very capital intensive menu...and they were just open way to much.
Put your money where your mouth is...live downtown. Get out of the car and walk, shop, and play in the city. Don't bring a suburban attitude/lifestyle to the city, rather be apart of changing the urban fabric for the better.
Speaking of the River Market, can anyone recommend a restaurant in that neighborhood? We're taking a friend out to dinner. Doesn't really matter what kind of food as long as its good - we're just looking for a casual, comfortable place we can have a good conversation.
Depends on how nice of a restaurant you want. Minsky's is good but it is a sports bar, basically. Blue Nile is a great place to enjoy company and take a long meal. Service is a tad slow but attentive and the food is good -- and you share. Vivace is a nice atmosphere and okay food but they often kick into nightclub mode in the evening. You are probably safe tonight. Have had Le Fou Frog and it has been awhile since I've had the Brewery, which is just typical pub food. Harry's is good but it is clearly a bar first. Dos Hombres is a normal sit-down gringo Mexican place.
staubio wrote:
Depends on how nice of a restaurant you want. Minsky's is good but it is a sports bar, basically. Blue Nile is a great place to enjoy company and take a long meal. Service is a tad slow but attentive and the food is good -- and you share. Vivace is a nice atmosphere and okay food but they often kick into nightclub mode in the evening. You are probably safe tonight. Have had Le Fou Frog and it has been awhile since I've had the Brewery, which is just typical pub food. Harry's is good but it is clearly a bar first. Dos Hombres is a normal sit-down gringo Mexican place.
Also if you want quiet conversation then tonight is NOT the night to go to Winslows unless you finish before about 8pm. (Karaoke night.)
Harry's is a lot of times pretty busy on Thursday nights so might be noisy as well.
staubio wrote:
Depends on how nice of a restaurant you want. Minsky's is good but it is a sports bar, basically. Blue Nile is a great place to enjoy company and take a long meal. Service is a tad slow but attentive and the food is good -- and you share. Vivace is a nice atmosphere and okay food but they often kick into nightclub mode in the evening. You are probably safe tonight. Have had Le Fou Frog and it has been awhile since I've had the Brewery, which is just typical pub food. Harry's is good but it is clearly a bar first. Dos Hombres is a normal sit-down gringo Mexican place.
Good call on the restaurants Staubio. KCMax if you are doing your dinner tonight the best place you can go and try fabulous stuff is Le Fou Frog. They have a happy hour with some amazing items on it until 8 I believe. One of the best happy hours in the city on a Thursday night.
I would argue that Harry's is a great place to get a meal. I think it straddles the line between restaurant and bar. In fact I think overall it has more of a restaurant feel to it. Food until 9. Also, if you are feeling good Italian both Cafe Al Dente (best pizza in town IMO) and Garozzos are amazing. If you like Vietnamese and want something cheap, good and very authentic go for the Vietnamese food in the city market. It is just north of Minskys and Windslows, you can't miss it but it is actually in the city market.
Put your money where your mouth is...live downtown. Get out of the car and walk, shop, and play in the city. Don't bring a suburban attitude/lifestyle to the city, rather be apart of changing the urban fabric for the better.
We need a River Market social club. We can rah rah for neighborhood places, rally support for extended hours, encourage people to spend more time and money in the neighborhood and serve as an outreach of DNA specific to the Market.
I'm in!! And you work closely with the River Market Business Association that sees the benefit in a strong area.
Put your money where your mouth is...live downtown. Get out of the car and walk, shop, and play in the city. Don't bring a suburban attitude/lifestyle to the city, rather be apart of changing the urban fabric for the better.
KC -Vino..........the old Mierhoffs Stained Glass building on the NW corner of 3rd and Wyandotte is now a storage facility for Architectural Salvage which has its main location on the Blvd @ Broadway.
Does anybody have any old pictures of the River Market pre 1980's River Quay days? I've heard stories of the bars that lined the streets on Walnut and Delaware but have never really seen older pictures of this. Even in the "Then and Now" series on this city you never really see any images.
Put your money where your mouth is...live downtown. Get out of the car and walk, shop, and play in the city. Don't bring a suburban attitude/lifestyle to the city, rather be apart of changing the urban fabric for the better.
butter_breath wrote:
If I remember right the building with the sign for a bar & grill was going for about 6 grand a month two years ago. You can find a better deal in the crossroads. If you paid 6000 a month you would have to sell about 18000 beers a month to to recieve 6000 or 600 a day for 30 days open. Now thats scary
Now wait a second. IF he sold 18000 beers at $3 a beer that would be $54000....even IF the actual cost per beer is $1 he would still be making $36000 profit just on the beer.
I must disclaimer this with my ignorance of the more holistic view of the River Market and the fact that I don't live there, but I can pose some suspicions that maybe can be addressed. I've tried reading through all 4 pages of this thread, so if it's already addressed, I apologize, and please just let me know. I personally love the RCM and would love to see it thrive, but I think there are 3 major issue that can be looked at, and ultimately the bottom dollar.
1) Safety- Regardless of what is reality, people are afraid of living/visiting there at night because of all the tales of cars stolen and broken into. From the perspective of a girl or a concerned boyfriend, this could include rape, as well as assault, robbery, etc. The image isn't helped when homeless people are rummaging to and fro, asking for money (regardless of what sympathies you or I may have for them). Remember, that even if the block itself seems ok, if two blocks over live those with incentives to commit these crimes, it elicits fear in people. Also remember, that whether you agree with this or not, it is factual that many perceive this, and that is what needs to be dealt with. If this is a factual problem, then it needs to be addressed... if it a guise, than that needs to be dispelled through education.
2) Liquid Cash - To my understanding, much of the RCM lofts are for Tax-Credit inhabitants. If this is the case, regardless of how much interest they might have in things, without the means to purchase such goods or services to support their local businesses, they cannot thrive. If outside visitors aren't coming in to fill that void, this deals with the safety issue above and also ties in with what I say about promotions in #3.
3) Lack of City Incentives - Now this I'm completely ignorant on... so let me know. But just as many living in the area are given some tax incentives, the city should be throwing deals out into the wind, incentives for certain types of businesses to open there in order to create an image that is sustainable. They should also have a campaign to promote such businesses as any thriving city does behind the scenes. It appears (be it true or not) that there is a lack of city and individual commitment to anything tangible.
Please remember... I give these points from an ignorant stance, so I understand that they may not be the case. I also bring them up to help, not to degrade... remember that I love the RCM area and have many friends that live there. For those that can address these issues or correct my interpretations, please do.
On the safety issue. The CID Community Improvement District people just moved into the RM a month ago. During the day you can see them working the streets cleaning up and keeping a watchful eye. For years the RM has suffered from some arm pit corners of no activity. Much of this will change with the opening up of the Cold Storage lofts on 3rd and Grand. This development will bring around 300 units, a ground floor space for a restaurant, and people's watchful eyes to a corner that has been long dead. If Delaware can regain its energy with another restaurant or bar it would only enhance the after 5 p.m. interests in the area.
In regards to incentives. I'd like to see more and feel like the RM is a victim to the same problem that the crossroads experiences. To many properties owned by to few developers (Brad Nicholson in the RM and CR, Tower Properties-Plaza, Embassy properties-owning much of the lofts in the RM, etc) To many fixed rents with not enough individual owners being aggressive to develop properties....just too little competition for many of these spaces. Maybe this is why so many of them continue to sit vacant amidst this huge boom DT, despite all the needs of existing residents in the area.
Put your money where your mouth is...live downtown. Get out of the car and walk, shop, and play in the city. Don't bring a suburban attitude/lifestyle to the city, rather be apart of changing the urban fabric for the better.
Good post wiz. Re: Safety, I think the best way to combat this perception is to have more people walking in the streets. There's probably more panhandlers in the Plaza than in the RM, but they are not threatening because there are so many other people out and about walking.
But of course, this is a chicken-egg problem. How do you get people to get out and about walking if they are afraid to? It goes back to an earlier point made - that many RM residents still have an automobile-mindset. But what else? How can we keep people out and about walking around the RM?
Welcome Wiz..... re: your questions. Yeah, safety perception is key. This issue affects all of downtown, but its a long term solution. There are still people in the outer ring who are afraid to come to the River Market because of mob violence from 1977. If you drive thru the market area right now, I don't believe you will find a panhandler. A recent development, but that perception will take time to change too.
The market area has approx. 28% low/moderate income housing. Don't confuse this with traditional housing projects. this system allows those in starter jobs to have a great place to live at a very affordable cost. These are typically singles at an age that uses a significant portion of its income for food and entertainment. The businesses in the area recognize their value to them.
On your third point, the city has invested approximately 40 million in the RiverMarket since 1989. This year they have put a quarter mil into the city market to catch up on some deferred business and the city is fast tracking the redevelopment of 2nd street. Not enough, but it never will be. That's why the CID makes so much sense for the RM and that's why the neighborhood embraced its formation. Everyone knew the city could not provide the basics any longer, so they took it on themselves.
