Status and future of the River Market area??

[ToDactivist]

right...condos are a special breed of hell for all involved. And until that changes, no new condo towers. townhomes are different with just party wall agmts and not subject to the same mess. Need some relief from legislatures - many are former attys - so not seeing that happen. And back to the townhomes on wyandotte, that issue is different and tied to Old Town Partners encumbering the lots in the 90's. Solvable only in having to either replace the surface loss with other (sic parking garage = $$$) or dedicate to specific areas (working) or wait until 2050. Now if the city realizes the increased prop value = prop tax revenue then maybe they step in and pay the aforementioned $$$, otherwise it sits. TBD.

Are co-ops or rent to own possible substitutes?

like the way you think. yes there should/could be a workaround sans banking. CO developers have taken to "over insuring" projects as one solution but towers are being built and condos being sold.

[ToDactivist]

RIght...forgot about bank reqs on units pre-sales too. Adding to the fun. We are selling condos now in the RM b/c we they were done >10yrs ago and no longer on attys radar screen BUT the banks still have issues as being non-warranted i.e. < 50% owner-occupied. Well how do you get there if just now starting to sell? A Mexican standoff really. Frustrating indeed. But there are select local banks that will finance these. Gotta like the free market, always a market maker. All issues we have to live with and transparent to most. Still KC is a fairly aggressive developer's friend still.

[DaveKCMO]

Cold Storage sells, may convert to market rate?

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... kadia.html

[normalthings]

Cold Storage sells, may convert to market rate?

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... kadia.html

100+ below ground parking spaces was a surprise. Are they entirely below the building footprint? If so, I’d love to see the surface lot get excavated and surface spaces converted to below ground parking with park or new construction above.

https://clk-properties.com/multifamily/ ... age-lofts/

[rxlexi]

100+ below ground parking spaces was a surprise. Are they entirely below the building footprint? If so, I’d love to see the surface lot get excavated and surface spaces converted to below ground parking with park or new construction above.

Yes, they are entirely below the building footprint. There is a very small garage accessible from the front of the building, and a separate and much large garage accessible from the rear of the building near the streetcar service tracks. The large surface lot at Cold Storage is unfortunate, but between the relatively limited garage space (for 226 units) and the soon-to-be development at 3rd and Grand, it is somewhat necessary and it's impact will be lessened in the near future.

Bigger concern to me is the empty lot across the street (next to Strange Days brewing), which (last I checked) is currently used as overflow parking for Cold Storage with no immediate plans for development.

If Cold Storage is able to go market rate it would likely be positive for the building and neighborhood, resulting in much needed improvements to the units and amenities, but RM would also lose one of it's few remaining large-scale, affordable (LIHTC in this case) living options.

[DColeKC]

Cold Storage sells, may convert to market rate?

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... kadia.html

If they expect market rate, it’s going to require major upgrades. Those apartments are junk and walls/floors paper thin. When visiting friends there years ago you could hear everything from neighbors.

[Rabble]

The parking discussion, over on channel Bridging Park & Market, was very educational to me. I had no idea a concept like a park & ride could be so politically charged. I'm exaggerating, but the extremes seem to be, I will park anywhere I want until there are no parking spaces, verses everyone will park in outlying park and rides, and all cars will be banished from downtown streets. Plenty of room for moderation.

I had also never heard the term, constrained parking, and I'm relieved it has nothing to do with bowel issues.

But throw out these concepts for a second. Does anybody agree with me that the River Market desperately needs a 1st class parking structure built by the city? Not just because of parking shortages, but to free up all the ugly surface lots from the parking leases that are holding back development. Downtown needs to have one neighborhood (and why not start with oldest) that doesn't look like it's missing half it's teeth. And I don't count the Power & Light district.

[grovester]

Why do you think a garage will free up the leases?

It would be very Kansas City to end up with a garage and the leases, in addition to the garage being inside the RM loop and screwing up the streetcar.

[Rabble]

I would hope they could be transferred.

It's very Kansas City to be looking at the alley side of 19th century buildings.

[WoodDraw]

I don't think it's as extreme as you think. The problem is that there is abundant parking at the destination downtown. There's no destination where you can't simply park close by.

There's no use case for park and ride because what you're talking about is people driving all the way to downtown and then parking and then taking transit when they could drive to their destination and just park there.

Maybe, just maybe, in a non-covid world, the city market could benefit on one day a week during nice weather. But that is already served by power and light and union station.

The city has cheaper ways to unencumber parking than building a massive garage that there is no demand for.

[Rabble]

The city has cheaper ways to unencumber parking than building a massive garage that there is no demand for.

And they are?

[WoodDraw]

The city has cheaper ways to unencumber parking than building a massive garage that there is no demand for.

And they are?

There are people way more involved and intelligent than me on this here, including people that own property there or intimately know what is keeping people from building. I hope they choose to join in.

I have long favored the carrot and the stick approach, which would have to involve zoning and incentive changes. I'm very tired, but I'll post more if they don't after I've slept and can write coherently.

[normalthings]

The city has cheaper ways to unencumber parking than building a massive garage that there is no demand for.

And they are?

My take away from TOD Activist is that the larger, uglier parcels literally require the replacement parking to be on the same lot.

[WoodDraw]

The city has cheaper ways to unencumber parking than building a massive garage that there is no demand for.

And they are?

My take away from TOD Activist is that the larger, uglier parcels literally require the replacement parking to be on the same lot.

That's who I was kind of referring to. I do think, if the city cared, they could unencumber those lots. It sounds like it would be a nightmare though.

I don't want to speak out of turn though, and people know more than me.

[Rabble]

A tour of the missing teeth along the route of the streetcar through the river market. All the sides and the backs of the buildings were never intended to be seen.

Why so much more infill in the crossroads than the river market?



Building on the right is the original board of trade, and has an exposed south facade, so maybe this is an old courtyard. The building on the left shows signs it had an attached neighbor that was removed.





This is where Main needs to be brought back the way Walnut was.















Next two will be the site of the Ashland, demo is near complete.

[DaveKCMO]

Short answer: No institutions impeding progress in the Crossroads and lots more land area to work with. Also, very little NIMBY pushback on scale (despite some opinions #OnHere).

KCMO, PortKC, MoDOT, KCATA, utilities, and railroads represent a lot of the land in the River Market.

[Rabble]

Some good news we heard this morning, the structural steel for the 10 story Ashland has been purchased and is in fabrication. That will dramatically change two of the twenty-four pictures.

[normalthings]

Some good news we heard this morning, the structural steel for the 10 story Ashland has been purchased and is in fabrication. That will dramatically change two of the twenty-four pictures.

It’s 10 floors now? When did it add 3?

[Rabble]

My mistake, seven stories.

[Rabble]

The second picture shows the Townley Hardware addition in all it's mid-century glory.