Status and future of the River Market area??

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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ToDactivist
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by ToDactivist »

normalthings wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:34 am
KCPowercat wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:38 am Assume this is 4th and Wyandotte?
Yea the TOD Activist project
Also on hold per the same parking issue. 121 car obligation encumbers EVERY space in two lots. Converting these to dedicated spaces - one party agrees, Pacific/Volker/Askew is just not responding (now absentee owner) and thus will soon resort to the stick vs carrot.
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normalthings
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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ToDactivist wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:47 pm
normalthings wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:46 pm @TODActivist What's up with 3rd @ Deleware? All listings and information have been removed from LoopNet, Cushman Wakefield, etc
Thanks for asking...simple answer is not much. Taking a break in a negative office environment from trolling. When we initially listed this we have a 40,000sqft tenant and were backfilling the remainder BUT never got past the LOI and glad we didnt. Plus same issue with parking lots and still working around that but would still proceed if anchored. Convert to Hotel - same timing malaise (banks this time). I'm a patient developer.
Have apartments or condos been considered for the site? I would think the ~47 existing on-site parking spaces would be plenty enough for a 4-5+ floor residential building.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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48 spaces is plenty except all 48 are encumbered already by agmts. Once removed from the pool, they have to be replaced. It is really not possible....yet
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by wahoowa »

KCPowercat wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:58 am Let's go! Take my money!
yeah! mine too!
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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wahoowa wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:59 am
KCPowercat wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:58 am Let's go! Take my money!
yeah! mine too!
submit credit card / bank data here ___________________
in actual reality (quick name who said this) we are working an adjacent lot that is unencumbered to hopefully start first. TBD but mixed with merchant, small office backfill (maybe) and modern brownstones and condos/appts. I see the demand for "for sale" homes but no one else does and the banks, contractors, architects, everyone runs from this notion in KC still. I get it, the "L" word which instills fear and attracts legal scum like chum in the shark pool. Sadness, if we could just do what is right w/o recourse....
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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L word? I can't believe there isn't a bank ready to lend to this.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by KCPowercat »

Bet I could find you 5 people to sign some sort of LOI for a new place if something like that helps. As I posted about building a new townhouse, I have no idea how any of that works.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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KCPowercat wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:49 am L word? I can't believe there isn't a bank ready to lend to this.
I think the "L" word here is liability.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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KCPowercat wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:49 am L word? I can't believe there isn't a bank ready to lend to this.
The Gallerie townhomes sold its 9 units in just over 9 months time, much of it during this covid pandemic.
There is definitely demand. I had actually put my contact info on the list when they were advertising the river market ones, but in the meantime the Gallerie ones broke ground and were built, so we bought there knowing the streetcar would likely come our way in the future.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by normalthings »

Critical_Mass wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:21 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:49 am L word? I can't believe there isn't a bank ready to lend to this.
The Gallerie townhomes sold its 9 units in just over 9 months time, much of it during this covid pandemic.
There is definitely demand. I had actually put my contact info on the list when they were advertising the river market ones, but in the meantime the Gallerie ones broke ground and were built, so we bought there knowing the streetcar would likely come our way in the future.
Iirc, developer and constructor is liable for 10 years after completion.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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Liable for what?
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by DaveKCMO »

KCPowercat wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:59 pm Liable for what?
Construction defects. Owners sue anyone involved for just about anything. My building didn't sue anyone (we had a "tolling agreement" with the GC), but the rest of them did.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by KCPowercat »

So that's different than single family home liability?
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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right...condos are a special breed of hell for all involved. And until that changes, no new condo towers. townhomes are different with just party wall agmts and not subject to the same mess. Need some relief from legislatures - many are former attys - so not seeing that happen. And back to the townhomes on wyandotte, that issue is different and tied to Old Town Partners encumbering the lots in the 90's. Solvable only in having to either replace the surface loss with other (sic parking garage = $$$) or dedicate to specific areas (working) or wait until 2050. Now if the city realizes the increased prop value = prop tax revenue then maybe they step in and pay the aforementioned $$$, otherwise it sits. TBD.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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ToDactivist wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:03 am right...condos are a special breed of hell for all involved. And until that changes, no new condo towers. townhomes are different with just party wall agmts and not subject to the same mess. Need some relief from legislatures - many are former attys - so not seeing that happen. And back to the townhomes on wyandotte, that issue is different and tied to Old Town Partners encumbering the lots in the 90's. Solvable only in having to either replace the surface loss with other (sic parking garage = $$$) or dedicate to specific areas (working) or wait until 2050. Now if the city realizes the increased prop value = prop tax revenue then maybe they step in and pay the aforementioned $$$, otherwise it sits. TBD.
Are co-ops or rent to own possible substitutes?
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by WoodDraw »

Reading this thread is so frustrating. Is it the city or nimby or banks or insurance?

Or a combination of all?

What do people sue for that's not covered under basic insurance agreements?
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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Not sure if this is the right thread or if it’s already known information, but BarK plans to open 10 more locations over the next 5 years. Not sure on locations and cities, but a very ambitious plan.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

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ToDactivist wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:03 am right...condos are a special breed of hell for all involved. And until that changes, no new condo towers. townhomes are different with just party wall agmts and not subject to the same mess. Need some relief from legislatures - many are former attys - so not seeing that happen. And back to the townhomes on wyandotte, that issue is different and tied to Old Town Partners encumbering the lots in the 90's. Solvable only in having to either replace the surface loss with other (sic parking garage = $$$) or dedicate to specific areas (working) or wait until 2050. Now if the city realizes the increased prop value = prop tax revenue then maybe they step in and pay the aforementioned $$$, otherwise it sits. TBD.
Also, if I remember correctly, financing is a challenge with condos because lenders require a certain amount of units to be sold before construction begins. This is why the light buildings in PNL have yet to feature any condos for sale.
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by Riverite »

DColeKC wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:52 pm
ToDactivist wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:03 am right...condos are a special breed of hell for all involved. And until that changes, no new condo towers. townhomes are different with just party wall agmts and not subject to the same mess. Need some relief from legislatures - many are former attys - so not seeing that happen. And back to the townhomes on wyandotte, that issue is different and tied to Old Town Partners encumbering the lots in the 90's. Solvable only in having to either replace the surface loss with other (sic parking garage = $$$) or dedicate to specific areas (working) or wait until 2050. Now if the city realizes the increased prop value = prop tax revenue then maybe they step in and pay the aforementioned $$$, otherwise it sits. TBD.
Also, if I remember correctly, financing is a challenge with condos because lenders require a certain amount of units to be sold before construction begins. This is why the light buildings in PNL have yet to feature any condos for sale.
Is it the same for single family housing?
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Re: Status and future of the River Market area??

Post by Eon Blue »

Riverite wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:59 pm
DColeKC wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:52 pmAlso, if I remember correctly, financing is a challenge with condos because lenders require a certain amount of units to be sold before construction begins. This is why the light buildings in PNL have yet to feature any condos for sale.
Is it the same for single family housing?
Yes, there are additional hoops to jump through for financing condos. AFAIK, it's nowhere near as onerous for SFHs, because as we know well here, the sum total of the American economic and government machine is geared to the production and consumption of new single-family homes.
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