Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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FangKC
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by FangKC »

I would rather see these investors buy the Aladdin Hotel and update it.

earthling
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by earthling »

^That's a good idea though would be even better for this to be built w/out incentives. Interest rates are low, however DT was probably at the edge of hotel overbuilding even before COVID. No way they should get incentives (or any hotel in city).

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings »

I think the business model requires (1) a steady flow of guests from the adjacent PAC (2) ample luxury vehicle parking

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:03 am
I think the business model requires (1) a steady flow of guests from the adjacent PAC (2) ample luxury vehicle parking
Exactly. The bigger question is why can't these 1%-ers just stay at the upscale Loews Hotel (which is a heavily-subsidized, brand-new 4-star property with ample parking) across the street?

Here's a recap of the difference between 4 and 5 stars: https://traveltips.usatoday.com/differe ... 62719.html

In short, it's ridiculous Gilded Age shit.

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normalthings
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings »

One answer is that some national/international Conventions & Events require or look highly on the availability of 5 star rooms. Especially the types of events we have agreed we want to land in the future.

Another is that the PAC wants a hotel to place their acts in and to help attract acts with. Denver has a high end hotel next door and a 4 seasons across the street. This is something the PAC and it’s donors want to replicate here.

Another is Business travel. Remember how WR wanted to be downtown in part for entertaining clients (high level execs)? That is something these sorts of hotels are utilized for day to day in our peer cities. This is what, in my opinion, gives a whisp of truth to the “JoCo will build one eventually” comments.

The site pays no taxes today and the non-profit owner would rather die than allow anything but this or similar to be built there. This projects will pay tens of millions into the taxing jurisdictions that would otherwise not exist. Design is meh from the drawings but I think it will end up looking a lot like the Federal Reserve.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO »

Of course none of these items is in question. It's really just the absurd incentives request.

The site DOES pay into the streetcar TDD.

Everyone dies.

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normalthings
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:57 am
Of course none of these items is in question. It's really just the absurd incentives request.

The site DOES pay into the streetcar TDD.

Everyone dies.
The IRR isn’t being padded with incentives. It’s just a capital intensive project. Would it not still pay the TDD if approved?
Last edited by normalthings on Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO »

I don't think the developer's IRR matters to anyone who's opposed to the use of TIF here, but good to know!

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:33 pm
I don't think the developer's IRR matters to anyone who's opposed to the use of TIF here, but good to know!
See above

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by beautyfromashes »

Why would we subsidize a hotel to poach business away from our convention center hotel that we just built and we're having to pay partially out of general funds? This group missed their chance. They asked for too much and now the market has changed not in their favor. They should take what they can get with a small but reasonable TIF request because in short order no incentive for DT will be available, especially for a ritzy hotel.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by FlippantCitizen »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:26 pm
Why would we subsidize a hotel to poach business away from our convention center hotel that we just built and we're having to pay partially out of general funds? This group missed their chance. They asked for too much and now the market has changed not in their favor. They should take what they can get with a small but reasonable TIF request because in short order no incentive for DT will be available, especially for a ritzy hotel.
Preach!

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by FangKC »

In a healthy economic environment, I'd only be inclined to support incentives to preserve an existing building that needs a major renovation or repurposing. Not so much a minor "refreshing" or regular maintenance.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings »

This is an amenity that all/most of our competitors and peers have. This project only works with incentives. With incentives, taxing jurisdictions will receive tens of millions more in taxes than they will otherwise. The project just seems like such a no brainer yes to me

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:29 pm
This is an amenity that all/most of our competitors and peers have. This project only works with incentives. With incentives, taxing jurisdictions will receive tens of millions more in taxes than they will otherwise. The project just seems like such a no brainer yes to me
So the comments from Visit KC or the TIF Commission vote don't matter to you? Those aren't typical conditions.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by normalthings »

As reported in the news, TIF’s no was a byproduct of the org and jurisdictions not wanting to provide incentives for a luxury hotel. There is no level of incentives KCPS or libraries will support for this. They are financially better off with this deal being approved.

Tourism, conventions, room nights, etc had been growing at a good pace pre-covid 19. One of the biggest drivers has been sports events. New product helped us land significantly more events and room nights booked in 2019. A 5 star hotel is something we know we need to land more and better events. I really doubt the same person staying at Hotel Bravo was going to say at 21C, Home2suites, Embassy, etc

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by beautyfromashes »

Is “Hotel Bravo” really the name?! It seems saying, “This will be a Ritz Carlton or Hyatt Regency” would help the developers chances of approval.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:13 am
As reported in the news, TIF’s no was a byproduct of the org and jurisdictions not wanting to provide incentives for a luxury hotel. There is no level of incentives KCPS or libraries will support for this. They are financially better off with this deal being approved.

Tourism, conventions, room nights, etc had been growing at a good pace pre-covid 19. One of the biggest drivers has been sports events. New product helped us land significantly more events and room nights booked in 2019. A 5 star hotel is something we know we need to land more and better events. I really doubt the same person staying at Hotel Bravo was going to say at 21C, Home2suites, Embassy, etc
People are savvy enough to know that a flag isn't really a guarantee these days of anything other than points, free breakfast, or maybe a specific room layout. I've stayed at some truly embarrassing Hyatt Regencys and I figured out quickly that the Ritz Carlton Chicago is a franchise and definitely not worth the rack rate. I always point people to the Crossroads Hotel as the best of the best in KC right now and it has yet to disappoint people who would normally stay at The Westin, Intercontinental, or The Raphael. I have never recommended any suburban properties in our region, including the subsidized OP Sheraton. The only hotel that continued real room service throughout the entire pandemic was The Ambassador (#2 on my list).

A 5-star hotel simply doesn't merit incentives and it's really unhelpful to those of us that do want to incentivize other important things like affordable units, TOD, and historic preservation to continue pushing this awful proposal.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by kas1 »

normalthings wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:43 am
This projects will pay tens of millions into the taxing jurisdictions that would otherwise not exist.
This argument continues to make no sense to me. Tens of millions of tax revenue means hundreds of millions of dollars of spending. If this hotel can attract visitors who dump hundreds of millions of dollars into the local economy, then why does it need the city to subsidize 1/3 of its cost? Shouldn't the hotel just be printing money under these circumstances? The premise of the argument is that there exists a huge number of globetrotters who refuse to stay in anything other than a five-star hotel who would love to visit Kansas City but for the fact that it has no hotel that's swanky enough for them. Why would these people not be willing to pay the same amount for their hotel room here as they do in every other city they visit?

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by WoodDraw »

I think our language over incentives has become confused in a way that isn't helpful. Wouldn't it be more helpful to talk about these things in the context of city guaranteed funds and net tax impact?

I think people get the impression that the city is backing up a dumptruck of money here.

I'm for public outreach and input, but I don't think tif and incentives accurately portray to people what is going on. I wish the local news would take away the jargon and explain what's going on. But they seem very not interested in this.

The best case I've seen for denying this is the possible impact on the convention hotel. They're very different beasts though.

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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte

Post by Walker »

Calling going out and identifying the flag as a Ritz Carlton would not do good in the public eye. Maybe if it is a less famous 5-star brand it could work. Park Hyatt doesn't conjure images of opulence for the average viewer.

Approve the thing!

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