OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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FangKC
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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by FangKC »

Why does the area under the control tower at KCI (a place where no human hangs out) appear more scenic and inviting than most parts of Penn Valley Park?

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by bobbyhawks »

Haha. Good point. I guess when Penn Valley Park is affiliated with a place that is responsible for billions of dollars in business over the years in KC, it will be well-looked after.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by benjaminkelley »

FangKC wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:17 pm
Why does the area under the control tower at KCI (a place where no human hangs out) appear more scenic and inviting than most parts of Penn Valley Park?
Because FAA regulations prohibit homeless people from living in the bushes near the tower?

That being said, as long as the city/parks dept/police don't care, it will continue to be a dump(literally) like Cliff Drive/Kessler Park, and people will continue to not care about it since its so trashy.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by Highlander »

This isn't going to solve all of PVP's many problems but it would certainly help: Make Broadway through the park a 2 lane rather than 4 lane road and close off access to I-35 and SW Trafficway from inside the park. Only the easternmost two lanes of Broadway would be preserved as a through going street and it would only contain one lane in each direction.

By eliminating the westernmost leg of Broadway north of the lake in PVP (27th) and the approaches to SW Trafficway and I-35, it would free up a rectangular shaped and sizeable portion of land between 26th and 27th that could be dedicated to apartments and/or commercial land use that would form a western boundary to the park so at least some of the park would have some interaction with the surrounding area. That piece of land would be enough for a fairly substantial apartment complex (if built with a little height) with a small amount of retail.

The lack of freeway access would further dampen the traffic through the park but keep Broadway a through going street. To compensate for the lack of access to SW Trafficway, the intersection at SW Trafficway and 31st could be widened to accommodate a right turning lane as more vehicles would be approaching downtown via that corridor with Broadway closed off to interstate access from the park.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by TheLastGentleman »

I think PVP’s problems stem from a combination of poor programming and, like you describe, oppressive car infrastructure. Liberty memorial is successful as an attraction, but might as well be in a different part of town from the rest of the park. The pond seems to be popular sometimes, and is picturesque, but has freeway traffic looming so close it’s almost falling into it. PVP is pretty small compared to the colossal urban parks out east, so it should be much denser with things to do and see

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by FangKC »

It depends on whether that land between 26th and 27th would revert back to KC Parks. If so, then it would have to go to a public vote to turn that land over to a developer.

I would have no objection to that land going for that purpose, since it would require more users in the park.

Btw, that land is where the public swimming pool and bathhouse used to be in PVP.

https://kchistory.org/islandora/object/ ... ffset%5D=1

https://kchistory.org/islandora/object/ ... ffset%5D=0

https://kchistory.org/islandora/object/ ... ffset%5D=4
Last edited by FangKC on Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by TheLastGentleman »

http://urbanangle.net/reconnecting-penn-valley-park/

This article has some wonderful information and observations, pointing out how esoteric PVP is to navigate

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by TheLastGentleman »

I think its interesting how under-programmed the park was even in the original design.

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Doesn't look like much fun honestly

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by KCKev »

When I get back to KC I fly my kite here and at the liberty memorial. Not many places to do that in my old stomping grounds. Please don't put a bunch of buildings and trees here. I need a place to do my thing without a bunch of development in my way!

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by Highlander »

KCKev wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:41 pm
When I get back to KC I fly my kite here and at the liberty memorial. Not many places to do that in my old stomping grounds. Please don't put a bunch of buildings and trees here. I need a place to do my thing without a bunch of development in my way!
In the area I propose putting residents and commercial (something the park direly needs to give it some integration with the city), all that sits there now are freeway approach ramps. The green space in the rest of the park would get a little larger by reducing the width of Broadway.
Last edited by Highlander on Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by moderne »

How bizarre and anachronistic. A Greek theater with Egyptian architecture. Even when the Greeks ruled Egypt the theaters in Alexandria had Greek architecture. When was this proposed(surely before 1950 and Starlight) and what site?

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by TheLastGentleman »

moderne wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 11:05 am
How bizarre and anachronistic. A Greek theater with Egyptian architecture. Even when the Greeks ruled Egypt the theaters in Alexandria had Greek architecture. When was this proposed(surely before 1950 and Starlight) and what site?
https://www.kansascity.com/news/your-kc ... 85402.html

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by TheLastGentleman »

What's Keeping Kansas City Parks From Being Major Destinations? A Shameful History
https://www.kcur.org/arts-life/2021-05- ... ul-history

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by smh »

I appreciate the KCUR piece largely focuses on race, but I found myself wanting her to explore further the notion that because KC lacks many mixed-use neighborhoods, parks lack the sort of natural use found in some other cities. I'd also suggest that because most people have a generously sized backyard of their own, even in the city, there is little reason for them to venture to parks as part of daily life.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by flyingember »

smh wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:02 am
I appreciate the KCUR piece largely focuses on race, but I found myself wanting her to explore further the notion that because KC lacks many mixed-use neighborhoods, parks lack the sort of natural use found in some other cities. I'd also suggest that because most people have a generously sized backyard of their own, even in the city, there is little reason for them to venture to parks as part of daily life.
It's been pointed out they also often lack key amenities like restrooms.

Englewood Park in the northland has a semi-permanent porta potty in order to host youth sports.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by FlippantCitizen »

smh wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:02 am
I appreciate the KCUR piece largely focuses on race, but I found myself wanting her to explore further the notion that because KC lacks many mixed-use neighborhoods, parks lack the sort of natural use found in some other cities. I'd also suggest that because most people have a generously sized backyard of their own, even in the city, there is little reason for them to venture to parks as part of daily life.
Having just moved back to KC after 5 years living in NYC, the lack of anything around parks to draw you there or keep you there is a huge barrier in my opinion. Since moving here I have gone to the off leash dog area of PVP with my pup up to three times a week when weather allows. Sometimes after blowing off a little steam we will walk on leash on some of the paths. But that's the extent of what I do there and I leave promtly when I'm done. While living in New York I might step out of a park or use vendor within, and buy lunch and eat it there. If I had nearby errands to run and a gap in between the park might be a good place to sit with coffee and catch up on emails or read a chapter of a book. A park was best used in my opinion as a spontaneous break from the day. The land use and types of pedestrian hostile roads surrounding PVP as well as Broadway breaking it apart make it realistically incurable in my opinion. Where does the mixed use development even go at this point? Southwest Traccifway and I35 make the west side a non starter. Government uses such as IRS and the Fed aren't going anywhere. Crown Center was developed as a city within a city to reject engagment with outside streets. That combined with the cemetary really sepeate the park with neighborhoods to the east. There are just so few options to even begin to get that mixed use engagment.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Post by Highlander »

smh wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:02 am
I appreciate the KCUR piece largely focuses on race, but I found myself wanting her to explore further the notion that because KC lacks many mixed-use neighborhoods, parks lack the sort of natural use found in some other cities. I'd also suggest that because most people have a generously sized backyard of their own, even in the city, there is little reason for them to venture to parks as part of daily life.
I struggle with the conclusions of the author. She might be correct about racism in some aspects but not in the way she's painting the picture. I grew up in the shadow of Swope Park. Meyer Blvd leading into the park and the areas around that were mostly white at the time. There still wasn't that much neighborhood interaction with the park other than people driving to the key attractions. That's because Swope Park has the same issue most of KC's other urban parks have; it's not well integrated with the surrounding neighborhoods and never has been. Same with Penn Valley Park.

Interesting that the one park she talks about as being successful has nothing to do with park funding but everything to do with the fact it is indeed very well integrated with the surrounding neighborhood. Mill Creek's Park is pretty successful for the same reason. Swope Park has a tremendous number of things to do in the park and the major attractions do well but the areas away from the attractions do not generally have a lot of activity despite some of these areas being very attractive. Some of that is because some people may be fearful of the park's location but it's mostly because the population density along the park's border is very low. PVP suffers for the same reasons.

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