OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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KCDowntown
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by KCDowntown »

Did anyone bring up the blank wall on 14th Street?

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Went to the public meeting this evening. Lots of pressure for them to do something with the ground level, especially the 14th st side. They ranged from adding retail to murals to just more glass. The B&M staff seemed receptive to the critiques and admitted they'd been focusing on the upper stories and are only now focusing on the ground level. Make of that what you will. That discussion took up most of the roughly hour and a half long meeting.

Some other big takeaways:

- The blank walls on the east facade are "reflective aluminum" designed to help the building achieve LEED standards.

- The loop cap remains merely a proposal. They suggested that more developments are needed around that area first.

- 4 Light was mentioned and it was suggested that Cordish is totally retooling it. That's all they knew about it.

- In the garage, the southernmost sections of the floors are flat and could potentially be converted to residential if less parking is needed in the future.

- They are working on lighting schemes

- The site sits directly on bedrock, and thus the garage cannot be realistically buried. Thus the compromise of making the garage look like part of the office tower.

- Retail apparently hadn't been part of the discussion before this meeting. Again, make of that what you will.

- West facade will have similar treatment as the east facade.

- Extensive landscaping will wrap around most of the building and will feature terraces. Zero off-street parking.

- The P&L dog park will survive.

- The ground floor lobby will be an elevator lobby, with W&R's main lobby on the first office floor as a skylobby.

- The cafeteria is apparently fairly small. This is because the large cafeteria H&R built for their building has had low use, since employees prefer to leave the building to eat, and so that informed the W&R design.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by KCPowercat »

Appreciate the report back. Fingers crossed.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by earthling »

Thanks for posting, good summary.
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:44 pm
- Lots of pressure for them to do something with the ground level, especially the 14th st side.

- The blank walls on the east facade are "reflective aluminum" designed to help the building achieve LEED standards.

- The cafeteria is apparently fairly small. This is because the large cafeteria H&R built for their building has had low use, since employees prefer to leave the building to eat, and so that informed the W&R design.
Good to hear the ground floor interaction was most time spent. The ground space could use public interaction, which a coffee shop or counter eats could address. Dump the cafeteria entirely and dedicate some street accessible space to public restaurant, even if just a counter.

Those panels are 3 or 4 floors tall/wide, they'll be obnoxious looking if blank (like the Loews blank wall). They could at least add some vertical LEED-certified windows within those panels. And with 4 Light going in next door, will have nothing to reflect yet would prevent additional natural lighting and no outside view from inside.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by chaglang »

Designing in 15 stories of unshaded, south facing curtainwall seems to miss the point of LEED.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by shinatoo »

chaglang wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:56 am
Designing in 15 stories of unshaded, south facing curtainwall seems to miss the point of LEED.
Unless they use shades.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by earthling »

Collison...

Waddell & Reed Project’s Lack of Sidewalk Appeal Gets Chilly Reception
https://cityscenekc.com/waddell-reed-pr ... reception/

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by KCPowercat »

Just as important as ground level activation is getting a garage entrance off of 14th Street.

Was there any discussion of these spots being available to the public?

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by smh »

I also attended last night's meeting and confirm and appreciate TheLastGentleman's write up. I'd add only that the neighborhood requests on this project are somewhat minimal and ought to be the *default* starting point in a development project in a downtown area.

It appears from the site plan that by removing just a handful of parking spots along the 14th Street side of the building, the 14th Street garage entrance could be removed and that space utilized for either a larger lobby, employee common space/cafeteria, or ground floor retail.

As it is now, Burns & Mac are planning to add substantial landscaping (~20ft deep from sidewalk to building!) to conceal the blank wall. Unfortunately, given the absence of public uses in the building it is most likely that area will mostly be used by P&L Building tenants to water their dogs.

It just felt last night like the entire premise of the building was off in that no one has considered the ground floor. They (a cynic might say in true KC fashion) appear to have only considered the building from the vantage point of someone arriving by car. Given the amount of public assistance going to this building it isn't outrageous to require a ground floor.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by earthling »

B&M is a suburban minded developer and W&R is a suburban company. They just don't 'get it'. More reason the City needs to establish ground level guidelines for all new downtown development (not landscaping but publicly accessible integration). Seattle did this a few decades ago and it paid off with great pedestrian/public integration into buildings down most streets.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by FangKC »

Keep in mind that W&R will not be owning this building. They are only a tenant. They could leave the building when the lease is up in 15 years, which I expect they will do -- trying to get a new incentives deal. Thus, the building should be designed taking into account that it will have to please future tenants and the public. Since W&R won't be occupying the ground floor anyway, what they want for that space is probably irrelevant. The building owner should be taking into account long-term viability of the building. This includes considering rent from a potential retail tenant that might be more sustaining than upper-floor office tenants. Think Lightwell Building when it was City Centre Square. That building had significant vacancies at times, and some of its' most reliable income came from the retail slots at ground level. Granted, the W&R headquarters wont' have lots of retail space, but any is worth considering. It doesn't have to be a restaurant. It could be office/commercial retail like a small bank, realty office, dental office, insurance agent, beauty/barber, optical shop, florist, etc.

I am just think about how many buildings empty out as they age, and the only rent keeping up the roof is retail at ground level. That was true for the Fairfax Lofts Building (Hotel Indigo), Midland Office Tower, Bryant Building,1006 Grand, and 1000 Broadway for years.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by earthling »

FangKC wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:11 pm
Granted, the W&R headquarters wont' have lots of retail space, but any is worth considering. It doesn't have to be a restaurant. It could be office/commercial retail like a small bank, realty office, dental office, insurance agent, beauty/barber, optical shop, florist, etc.
Yeah the developer needs to think 50 years out as isolated island developments shut off long term opportunity for street vibe. Landscaping a wall doesn't cut it. Even if they don't fill retail spaces at first, they could use for storage or meeting rooms until finding a tenant.

They are also planning a small cafeteria. They could simply place it street side and allow public sidewalk access, whether operated by building or restaurant owner. Many internal building cafeterias allow public access.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:20 pm
FangKC wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:11 pm
Granted, the W&R headquarters wont' have lots of retail space, but any is worth considering. It doesn't have to be a restaurant. It could be office/commercial retail like a small bank, realty office, dental office, insurance agent, beauty/barber, optical shop, florist, etc.
Yeah the developer needs to think 50 years out as isolated island developments shut off long term opportunity for street vibe. Landscaping a wall doesn't cut it. Even if they don't fill retail spaces at first, they could use for storage or meeting rooms until finding a tenant.

They are also planning a small cafeteria. They could simply place it street side and allow public sidewalk access, whether operated by building or restaurant owner. Many internal building cafeterias allow public access.
Would they need an additional elevator to connect the offices/sky lobby and a ground floor cafeteria.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by FangKC »

Yes, I know a lot of companies have their own cafeterias. I think those should always be designed to be open to the public as well. I realize the Bolling Federal Building can't really do that, but other company headquarters should consider it. For example, hospital cafeterias make no distinction between employees and the visiting public, and they are almost always built in the interior of the hospital.

I'm generally opposed to private corporate cafeterias since they tend to contribute to failure of public retail restaurants to thrive in downtown areas. I realize if you are a suburban campus, it's different since employees have to drive to leave the building to eat. But in concentrated downtown business districts, insular corporate cafeterias can cause street-level restaurants harm. Often it's because they don't have to turn a profit.

Sometimes the best option is just a simple counter deli that serves a variety of foods so that customers can come there almost daily and get something different.
Last edited by FangKC on Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by normalthings »

This was mentioned in Twitter: Why not add a ground floor Waddell & Reed Advisors office? H&R Block did something similar with their HQ ground floor tax prep location.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by earthling »

Not following where an elevator comes to play. Simply make it a cafeteria or restaurant on the public part of the building, before security area to elevators. But some buildings like Sun Life allow public to go to the second floor for the cafeteria. I think HR Block is public access too. My point is to place a restaurant space along sidewalk, which could be operated as a building run publicly accessible cafeteria or separate restaurant.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by FangKC »

Basically you could design the building to be similar to the frontage now of the old IBM Building. That frontage on Baltimore could be the entrance to a cafeteria, and the W&R entrance could be mid-block on 14th Street. Cafeteria windows could also face part of 14th Street up to the W&R entrance, albeit they would get smaller with the grade going west. Cafeteria has orange framed windows; W&R entrance framed in blue.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by kas1 »

smh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:50 am
As it is now, Burns & Mac are planning to add substantial landscaping (~20ft deep from sidewalk to building!) to conceal the blank wall.
Any landscaping that can conceal an entire wall can also conceal a person who wants to ambush me and mug me. These people sound dangerously out of their depths on best practices for urban design. It is long past time for the city to take the lead and codify reasonable design standards so that developers stop submitting this type of garbage. I moved away from KC many years ago to pursue urban living and I keep track of what's going on here in case I ever decide to live here again -- buildings like this give me absolutely zero enthusiasm for it. When I walk down a street alone, I want to immediately know what threats there might be. That means clear sight lines and closed spaces. Twenty feet of landscaping along the sidewalk for an entire block is a fucking joke.

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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by shinatoo »

kas1 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:15 pm
smh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:50 am
As it is now, Burns & Mac are planning to add substantial landscaping (~20ft deep from sidewalk to building!) to conceal the blank wall.
Any landscaping that can conceal an entire wall can also conceal a person who wants to ambush me and mug me. These people sound dangerously out of their depths on best practices for urban design. It is long past time for the city to take the lead and codify reasonable design standards so that developers stop submitting this type of garbage. I moved away from KC many years ago to pursue urban living and I keep track of what's going on here in case I ever decide to live here again -- buildings like this give me absolutely zero enthusiasm for it. When I walk down a street alone, I want to immediately know what threats there might be. That means clear sight lines and closed spaces. Twenty feet of landscaping along the sidewalk for an entire block is a fucking joke.
It will be fenced off once they realize they built a campground for the homeless.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by DColeKC »

kas1 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:15 pm
smh wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:50 am
As it is now, Burns & Mac are planning to add substantial landscaping (~20ft deep from sidewalk to building!) to conceal the blank wall.
Any landscaping that can conceal an entire wall can also conceal a person who wants to ambush me and mug me. These people sound dangerously out of their depths on best practices for urban design. It is long past time for the city to take the lead and codify reasonable design standards so that developers stop submitting this type of garbage. I moved away from KC many years ago to pursue urban living and I keep track of what's going on here in case I ever decide to live here again -- buildings like this give me absolutely zero enthusiasm for it. When I walk down a street alone, I want to immediately know what threats there might be. That means clear sight lines and closed spaces. Twenty feet of landscaping along the sidewalk for an entire block is a fucking joke.
So under that assumption, capping the interstate would just create a big park for the homeless and muggers?


This is why we have cameras and security personal. Last I checked, downtown KC doesn't have a mugging issue unless I missed something?

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