Earnings Tax

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normalthings
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by normalthings »

kboish wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:17 pm
The idea that a Northland neighborhood is subsidizing downtown is ridiculous. Town Pavilion paid $1.6 million in total property taxes last year with $250k going to the city. A 200,000 dollar house pays what in taxes per year? $3,00? it would take 530 Northland houses to offset just that one buildings payments.

Not to mention a disproportionate share of sale tax is generated downtown.
Exactly. That map I first shared is property tax after abatements/incentives and it alone shows how much property taxes are skewed towards downtown. Sales tax and earnings tax generation is heavily skewed downtown. Remember: The 1% of the city's land area that is downtown makes up over 25% of revenues.

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normalthings
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by normalthings »

These are breakdowns for earnings, sales, and property taxes.

Earnings tax mapping was done by zipcode.
Image

Image


Sales tax
Image

And again. property tax after abatements,etc

Image

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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by kboish »

Plus, the city takes a very small portion of your overall property tax bill.
E-tax and sales and use are much bigger shares of city revenue. This is especially true for the general fund as e-tax is wholly unrestricted

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FangKC
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by FangKC »

People overestimate how much property taxes support the City. One has to remember that the City only gets a portion of property taxes with portions going to the County, school districts, libraries, zoo, etc. Low income residents also get a portion of their property taxes refunded (if they apply).

However, StrongTowns I believe has articles indicating that denser neighborhoods of older, city center homes contribute more total taxes per sq. mile to a city's coffers than less dense suburban neighborhoods -- even newer ones.

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chaglang
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by chaglang »

^Urban3 does a lot of this kind of mapping. I've seen mapping that shows some eastside neighborhoods outperforming suburbs.

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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by earthling »

FangKC wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:34 am
However, StrongTowns I believe has articles indicating that denser neighborhoods of older, city center homes contribute more total taxes per sq. mile to a city's coffers than less dense suburban neighborhoods -- even newer ones.
And of course fewer miles of infrastructure to maintain in denser areas per capita. Roads, water, sewer, power lines, etc.

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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

earthling wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:58 am
FangKC wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:34 am
However, StrongTowns I believe has articles indicating that denser neighborhoods of older, city center homes contribute more total taxes per sq. mile to a city's coffers than less dense suburban neighborhoods -- even newer ones.
And of course fewer miles of infrastructure to maintain in denser areas per capita. Roads, water, sewer, power lines, etc.
I will never understand the NIMBY people who seem to believe that densifying projects will somehow raise their taxes, but the amount of times I’ve heard that argument is mind boggling
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by flyingember »

What does the sales taxes look like if Hotels are removed from The "Taxable Sales Per Acre" map?

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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by flyingember »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:53 pm

I will never understand the NIMBY people who seem to believe that densifying projects will somehow raise their taxes, but the amount of times I’ve heard that argument is mind boggling

Partially because there's evidence it does. It's not that *density* creates higher values but the ability to build more unit per acre in an area that does

It's a circle. It's the snowball effect. Whatever you want to call it.

People move into an area, enabling walkable commercial zones served by transit which causes demand to move there, which increases developer demand to build housing, which increases low density property values (and thus taxes) which is converted into a multi-unit building which leads people to move into the area

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 151109.htm
The researchers found that not only did the value of single-family residential properties increase with density of surrounding development...
https://appam.confex.com/appam/2018/web ... 25598.html
A second primary takeaway from this study is the relationship between density and home values in the urban core of metropolitan areas. In neighborhoods within 7.5 miles of the city center, including controls for distance and unit attributes, the relationship between density and home values is positive and significant. This finding is noteworthy because proposals designed to increase the density of the built environment are frequently contested in the urban core. The variation in the structure of the five cities included in this analysis, and the consistent results across these heterogeneous metropolitan areas, strengthens the validity of this finding.
https://www.huduser.gov/periodicals/cit ... m1/ch3.pdf
limiting density also makes raw land less valuable per acre as an input into new housing production
https://www.cato.org/research-briefs-ec ... ing-prices
Anecdotal evidence suggests that zoning can have a huge effect on land values. For example, a 363-hectare site in Wyndam Vale (40 kilometers west of Melbourne) increased in value from $120 million to $400 million following its rezoning from rural to residential.

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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by mykn »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:53 pm
earthling wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:58 am
FangKC wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:34 am
However, StrongTowns I believe has articles indicating that denser neighborhoods of older, city center homes contribute more total taxes per sq. mile to a city's coffers than less dense suburban neighborhoods -- even newer ones.
And of course fewer miles of infrastructure to maintain in denser areas per capita. Roads, water, sewer, power lines, etc.
I will never understand the NIMBY people who seem to believe that densifying projects will somehow raise their taxes, but the amount of times I’ve heard that argument is mind boggling
“Density” also acts as a dog whistle for “black people moving into my neighborhood”. Similar to how “public transit” is used by these people.

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FangKC
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by FangKC »

Kansas City voters renew earnings tax.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ka ... rnings-tax

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Highlander
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by Highlander »

FangKC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:55 pm
Kansas City voters renew earnings tax.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ka ... rnings-tax
While it is unfortunate that this comes up for a revote on a regular basis, it doesn't seem like it's in any danger of failing anytime in the foreseeable future.

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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by flyingember »

Highlander wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:36 pm
FangKC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:55 pm
Kansas City voters renew earnings tax.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ka ... rnings-tax
While it is unfortunate that this comes up for a revote on a regular basis, it doesn't seem like it's in any danger of failing anytime in the foreseeable future.
The East Side knows it's in their interests to pay 1%. It's better than higher property taxes or lower services.

It shows that a larger regional transit funding model with free service coming from a 1% tax could be popular.

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normalthings
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am
Highlander wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:36 pm
FangKC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:55 pm
Kansas City voters renew earnings tax.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ka ... rnings-tax
While it is unfortunate that this comes up for a revote on a regular basis, it doesn't seem like it's in any danger of failing anytime in the foreseeable future.
The East Side knows it's in their interests to pay 1%. It's better than higher property taxes or lower services.

It shows that a larger regional transit funding model with free service coming from a 1% tax could be popular.
1% is lower than what STL pays I think.

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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:57 pm
1% is lower than what STL pays I think.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/collector/ea ... x-home.cfm

Looks like it's the same

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normalthings
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:36 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:57 pm
1% is lower than what STL pays I think.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/collector/ea ... x-home.cfm

Looks like it's the same
No transit sale tax. Looking it up, I think its 1% at the city and 1% at the county.

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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:57 pm
flyingember wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:36 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:57 pm
1% is lower than what STL pays I think.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/collector/ea ... x-home.cfm

Looks like it's the same
No transit sale tax. Looking it up, I think its 1% at the city and 1% at the county.
So it's 1% then, being a city independent of the county

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normalthings
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Re: Earnings Tax

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:13 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:57 pm
flyingember wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:36 pm

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/collector/ea ... x-home.cfm

Looks like it's the same
No transit sale tax. Looking it up, I think its 1% at the city and 1% at the county.
So it's 1% then, being a city independent of the county
yea, i had thought it was more. Maybe they dedicated another tax towards building transit?

Unsure, but 1% sales tax for transit seems like a good number for us to target for our region. @davekcmo

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