2023 KCMO Election

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FangKC
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FangKC »

Please be reminded that the earnings tax is up for renewal on April 6, 2021, and it will likely be a low-turnout election seeing that the only other issue on the ballot in most precincts of the City are school board posts.

If you can/plan to vote by absentee ballot, by all means request your ballot.

https://www.kceb.org/absentee/

marieantoinette
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by marieantoinette »

Seriously, though. Shields can't run for 4th again, right??

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by flyingember »

marieantoinette wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:48 pm
Seriously, though. Shields can't run for 4th again, right??
Sec 206 of the charter

Member of the Council. No person shall be elected a member of the Council who has been elected to the Council in each of the last two regular municipal elections.

She can't run in 2023 but could in 2027

There's no total term limits, just consecutive term limits.

marieantoinette
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by marieantoinette »

Well, at least that means someone will replace her. Who is up for it?

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by empires228 »

FangKC wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:09 pm
Please be reminded that the earnings tax is up for renewal on April 6, 2021, and it will likely be a low-turnout election seeing that the only other issue on the ballot in most precincts of the City are school board posts.

If you can/plan to vote by absentee ballot, by all means request your ballot.

https://www.kceb.org/absentee/
And if you want it to pass, go VOTE! I have 9 millennial friends voting no on renewing it in KCMO. The millennial crowd sees it as a way at defunding what they see as a hostile and already useless KCMO police force.

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FangKC
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FangKC »

I love seeing how informed the millennials seem to be. Are they aware that the City doesn't control the police department, or its' policies? The KCMO police department is under control of the State of Missouri. The governor appoints four of five of the commissioners to the police board, who governs the police department.

Punishing the entire city budget to defund the police will accomplish nothing. Of course, when things go bad, your millennial friends will simply move away.

Defunding the police is a childish response to the problem of police over-reach, and punitive racial-disparities. The mature response nationwide is to reform how policing is done by making police accountable, and providing funding for body cams, social workers that work with police, and mental health funding, better education, and community engagement.

This includes taking actions that remove state authority over our police department, and returning it locally.

https://www.kcpd.org/about/board-of-pol ... issioners/

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by DaveKCMO »

FangKC wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:39 pm
I love seeing how informed the millennials seem to be. Are they aware that the City doesn't control the police department, or its' policies? The KCMO police department is under control of the State of Missouri. The governor appoints four of five of the commissioners to the police board, who governs the police department.

Punishing the entire city budget to defund the police will accomplish nothing. Of course, when things go bad, your millennial friends will simply move away.

Defunding the police is a childish response to the problem of police over-reach, and punitive racial-disparities. The mature response nationwide is to reform how policing is done by making police accountable, and providing funding for body cams, social workers that work with police, and mental health funding, better education, and community engagement.

This includes taking actions that remove state authority over our police department, and returning it locally.

https://www.kcpd.org/about/board-of-pol ... issioners/
It's not an illogical position if serious police reform is important to you. The e-tax funds the police department because the current and previous Councils made those decisions.

Local control won't necessarily result in reform or even a reduction in crime.

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by flyingember »

“A man who won’t die for something is not fit to live.”
-MLK Jr.

“A riot is the language of the unheard.”
-MLK Jr.

Voting against it is one of the single most powerful statements we could make as a city. It would create change in the force like nothing ever has.

The mature response is to reach out and demand change at the ballot box.
Not liking how people vote doesn't make it childish.

Just a reminder, Millennials are age ~25 to 40. The average lifespan is 77. So if someone in the second half of their life sees only one way to change, this is coming from wisdom.

What exactly do you think are the actions that work to get change? The last time it was a major protest and documentation that the police will respond to a protest with violence.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/c ... 90458.html
A Kansas City police officer who was seen on a viral video pepper spraying a man and his teenage daughter at a protest last summer has been charged with assault, the Jackson County Prosecutor’s Office announced Friday.

Nicholas McQuillen, 38, faces a misdemeanor charge of fourth degree assault. A grand jury indictment alleges McQuillen “recklessly caused physical pain to ... a juvenile, by spraying a chemical agent at and/or near her face and eyes.”
It's no coincidence that the department took body cams seriously after this.
https://www.kcpd.org/media/news-release ... ra-update/

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grovester
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by grovester »

I would guess that repeal of the etax would not lead to defunding the police, but defunding of all the things this board has been advocating for, moving those funds to the police budget.

The public outcry about crime would swamp any high level conversation about the role of police in society.

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by flyingember »

grovester wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:12 am
I would guess that repeal of the etax would not lead to defunding the police, but defunding of all the things this board has been advocating for, moving those funds to the police budget.

The public outcry about crime would swamp any high level conversation about the role of police in society.
Logically, that's impossible. Special revenue funds tend to be tied to the specific purpose or bond and couldn't be redirected. Like the transit sales taxes go to transit and this category today is 100% budgeted from special revenue funds.

The budget has $269 million estimated from the e-tax, 100% to the general fund.

Looking by function, the General Fund is 75% public safety. 99% odds there isn't enough unencumbered income left in the budget without the e-tax to not cut the police and fire dept dramatically.

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grovester
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by grovester »

flyingember wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:42 am
grovester wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:12 am
I would guess that repeal of the etax would not lead to defunding the police, but defunding of all the things this board has been advocating for, moving those funds to the police budget.

The public outcry about crime would swamp any high level conversation about the role of police in society.
Logically, that's impossible. Special revenue funds tend to be tied to the specific purpose or bond and couldn't be redirected. Like the transit sales taxes go to transit and this category today is 100% budgeted from special revenue funds.

The budget has $269 million estimated from the e-tax, 100% to the general fund.

Looking by function, the General Fund is 75% public safety. 99% odds there isn't enough unencumbered income left in the budget without the e-tax to not cut the police and fire dept dramatically.
Well if they're angling to repeal the etax and only defund the police, 99% odds that's not possible.

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by DColeKC »

The police department needs more money, better training and more officers. Defunding them would be a total disaster, look at how the murder rate declined while the big scary "feds" were in town.

But let's keep bashing the police so less people want to become a cop, making it harder and far more expensive to staff a PD. The starting salary for a city police officer will be 100k before we know it.

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:18 pm
The police department needs more money, better training and more officers. Defunding them would be a total disaster, look at how the murder rate declined while the big scary "feds" were in town.

But let's keep bashing the police so less people want to become a cop, making it harder and far more expensive to staff a PD. The starting salary for a city police officer will be 100k before we know it.
Merging PD with KCMO would instantly free up millions per year for better training and equipment.


" EXPERTS SAY THERE IS LITTLE EVIDENCE THAT MORE COPS EQUALS LESS CRIME."

Responding to public panic over urban violence during the 1990s, President Bill Clinton signed off on millions of dollars in federal funds to hire thousands of local cops across the country. In 1997, two years after the money started to trickle out of Washington, the nation had 242 police officers for every 100,000 residents. By 2016, that number had dropped to 217 as law enforcement agencies shed jobs in the aftermath of a national recession while the nation’s population grew.

The national violent crime rate, over those 19 years, dropped by 37 percent. According to FBI data, in 1997 the national violent crime rate was 611.0 per 100,000 inhabitants. In 2016 the violent crime rate was 386.3 out of 100,000 inhabitants.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/inv ... 818056002/

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by flyingember »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:18 pm
look at how the murder rate declined while the big scary "feds" were in town.
I was skeptical but it's true

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/op ... r-suspects

Down 22%

Maybe this shows a need to reallocate resources. It validates the idea of taking cops off of jobs that social workers could do so they can focus on violent crime.

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by DColeKC »

flyingember wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:17 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:18 pm
look at how the murder rate declined while the big scary "feds" were in town.
I was skeptical but it's true

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/op ... r-suspects

Down 22%

Maybe this shows a need to reallocate resources. It validates the idea of taking cops off of jobs that social workers could do so they can focus on violent crime.
I'm a fan of having more social workers handle certain situations, but I don't know that means freeing up more cops because most of the time, you'd want to have a cop with the social worker for safety. If we simply fixed the homeless situation in this country, we would free up thousands of hours of police officers time.

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FangKC »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:30 am

It's not an illogical position if serious police reform is important to you. The e-tax funds the police department because the current and previous Councils made those decisions.

Local control won't necessarily result in reform or even a reduction in crime.
Then please explain to me how getting rid of the e-tax reforms the police department?

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FangKC »

flyingember wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:39 am
...
What exactly do you think are the actions that work to get change? The last time it was a major protest and documentation that the police will respond to a protest with violence.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/c ... 90458.html
A Kansas City police officer who was seen on a viral video pepper spraying a man and his teenage daughter at a protest last summer has been charged with assault, the Jackson County Prosecutor’s Office announced Friday.

Nicholas McQuillen, 38, faces a misdemeanor charge of fourth degree assault. A grand jury indictment alleges McQuillen “recklessly caused physical pain to ... a juvenile, by spraying a chemical agent at and/or near her face and eyes.”
It's no coincidence that the department took body cams seriously after this.
https://www.kcpd.org/media/news-release ... ra-update/
Please explain how getting rid of 40 percent of the city general fund accomplishes police reform? How will you make up the losses in revenue, and how will you explain to residents when cuts will need to be made to streets, trash pickup, snow removal, derelict house demolition, unmowed parks? How will you do this on top of the fact the City has had a huge drop in revenues because of the COVID pandemic?

I live in Historic Northeast, and residents here already complain about police response times, general crime, code enforcement, bad streets, delayed snow removal, trash pickup, city inattention to trash dumping, park maintenance, derelict houses, and homeless camps -- and that's with present city spending.
Last edited by FangKC on Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by mean »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:18 pm
I'm a fan of having more social workers handle certain situations, but I don't know that means freeing up more cops because most of the time, you'd want to have a cop with the social worker for safety. If we simply fixed the homeless situation in this country, we would free up thousands of hours of police officers time.
I don't know about most of the time. Does some potential bridge-jumper really need to be confronted by a massive onslaught of lights and sirens? I am happy to admit that I haven't done any research on this and I am completely talking out of my ass, but I have a strong suspicion that the vast majority of police interactions with the public do not require armed intervention, and the reason they get armed intervention (by which I mean, they are confronted by a cop with a gun; not necessarily that violence is actually used on either side) is because 1) police are the ones responding, which is no fault of their own, and 2) police tend to view all interactions, regardless of the evidence at hand or the normal social cues one might otherwise consider, as being life-threatening to them, which is. Seems to me that #2 is a part the problem. I get why, but maybe it's bullshit. Nobody else does their job that way. Nobody flies a plane like the crash is inevitable and coming any second. Just because something happens in a tiny percent of your job description does not justify treating every time you do your job like the worst-case scenario.

Just a thought.

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FangKC »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:18 pm
flyingember wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:17 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:18 pm
look at how the murder rate declined while the big scary "feds" were in town.
I was skeptical but it's true

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/op ... r-suspects

Down 22%

Maybe this shows a need to reallocate resources. It validates the idea of taking cops off of jobs that social workers could do so they can focus on violent crime.
I'm a fan of having more social workers handle certain situations, but I don't know that means freeing up more cops because most of the time, you'd want to have a cop with the social worker for safety. If we simply fixed the homeless situation in this country, we would free up thousands of hours of police officers time.
Yet people are advocating for cutting the e-tax and defunding police at a time when homelessness is going up in Kansas City. Tents are popping up on City Hall's lawn, and the Westport Triangle.

https://www.kcur.org/2021-04-01/kansas- ... -on-sunday

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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by im2kull »

flyingember wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:17 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:18 pm
look at how the murder rate declined while the big scary "feds" were in town.
I was skeptical but it's true

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/op ... r-suspects

Down 22%

Maybe this shows a need to reallocate resources. It validates the idea of taking cops off of jobs that social workers could do so they can focus on violent crime.
No, it validates the idea that actually taking actions to investigate crime, arrest criminals, and prosecute said criminals is THE greatest way to curb crime... instead of tasking your PD to standby silently and pretend that no crimes are occurring while they're out filling politically driven speed ticket quotas. When criminals are locked up, instead of left roaming the streets, then crime drops. It's common sense.

The biggest difference between the United States and Europe is that in Europe cops are rarely seen out roaming for traffic offenders. They're ALL at the station running investigations, responding to crime, and hauling in criminals.

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