2023 KCMO Election

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beautyfromashes
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

DColeKC wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:43 am You can’t honestly think reparations are needed or more importantly, would help anything.
I think acknowledging that the roots of racism are very deep in this nation and still affects large populations in a way more than mere words is needed. That true repentance for historical harms probably won’t happen from most in the country (perhaps including yourself), the next best thing is a financial acknowledgement from our government. I’m just constantly surprised at many people’s response when where we live is still largely segregated, poverty is predominantly in certain groups and schools are drastically superior or inferior based on the racial breakdown of the district. So many people want to just “move on” on ignore that an injustice has been done and needs to be corrected with real action and funds instead of pep talks.
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grovester
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by grovester »

beautyfromashes wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:58 pm
DColeKC wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:43 am You can’t honestly think reparations are needed or more importantly, would help anything.
I think acknowledging that the roots of racism are very deep in this nation and still affects large populations in a way more than mere words is needed. That true repentance for historical harms probably won’t happen from most in the country (perhaps including yourself), the next best thing is a financial acknowledgement from our government. I’m just constantly surprised at many people’s response when where we live is still largely segregated, poverty is predominantly in certain groups and schools are drastically superior or inferior based on the racial breakdown of the district. So many people want to just “move on” on ignore that an injustice has been done and needs to be corrected with real action and funds instead of pep talks.
C'mon bfa, it just bad parenting. A couple of Home Ec classes and we'll all be good.
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TheLastGentleman
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by TheLastGentleman »

The Lucas hate has to be one of this board’s strangest quirks
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

To not get elected to a second mayoral term in this town you have to put your wife in the fake position of co-mayor and let her walk around city hall barefoot. Most everything else will be forgiven.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by FangKC »

I don't hate Lucas. It's just my gut instinct he won't be re-elected.
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im2kull
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by im2kull »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:11 pm The Lucas hate has to be one of this board’s strangest quirks
Why? This is a development orientated board and Lucas has shown to be vehemently anti-development with his rhetoric.
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DColeKC
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

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beautyfromashes wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:58 pm
DColeKC wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:43 am You can’t honestly think reparations are needed or more importantly, would help anything.
I think acknowledging that the roots of racism are very deep in this nation and still affects large populations in a way more than mere words is needed. That true repentance for historical harms probably won’t happen from most in the country (perhaps including yourself), the next best thing is a financial acknowledgement from our government. I’m just constantly surprised at many people’s response when where we live is still largely segregated, poverty is predominantly in certain groups and schools are drastically superior or inferior based on the racial breakdown of the district. So many people want to just “move on” on ignore that an injustice has been done and needs to be corrected with real action and funds instead of pep talks.
This country has acknowledged more than once not only how bad slavery was, but the harm it caused. The issue of financially acknowledging slavery has already been done with the trillions of government funded programs meant to help the black community. Racial preferences have been around for decades in job placement, contracts and educational admissions. If trillions and the wholesale rewriting of American laws isn't good enough, what will be enough?

The concept is complicated. How do you prove you're a descendent of slavery? Because statistically speaking, there's very few people alive today that are direct decedents of slaves or slave owners. How do you address the 3000 African American slave owners? What about the 350,000 men who died fighting for the union and to end slavery? How can you morally ask their decedents to again pay for slavery when their ancestors gave their lives?

Also, the concept that only white people benefited from slavery is false. The GNP of black America is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous “nation” in the world. Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade but the first anti-slave movement existed in this country and was founded by white, christian men. If it weren't for those men and their military power, combined with a white president who gave his life to free slaves, who knows how much longer slavery would have went on in the world.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by dukuboy1 »

I'm always curious about this conversation. How far back in history do we go? Mankind had enslaved people for 1000's of years. Do the Greeks & Italians need to pay ethnics groups they enslaved for hundreds of years? Do Egyptians pay the Hebrews and others? What about the the Chinese and other Asian empires who enslaved millions over 100's of years. Also what about the Native & Meso-Americans that enslaved rival tribal and native societies.

Slavery is terrible no matter when in history but where/when do we stop. Do we only look at slavery in the USA? Do we acknowledge it was part of a larger trade in the Americas that was being supported and even ran by other European countries? Do we expect them to help pay? It's a very complex and convoluted series of questions and answers. AT the heart of it is a great idea and noble idea to pay for the sins of the past to try to help financially. But the task that it would be to do it right and fair and just could take decades even with a specific focus on it.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by flyingember »

dukuboy1 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:33 pm I'm always curious about this conversation. How far back in history do we go? Mankind had enslaved people for 1000's of years. Do the Greeks & Italians need to pay ethnics groups they enslaved for hundreds of years? Do Egyptians pay the Hebrews and others? What about the the Chinese and other Asian empires who enslaved millions over 100's of years. Also what about the Native & Meso-Americans that enslaved rival tribal and native societies.

Slavery is terrible no matter when in history but where/when do we stop. Do we only look at slavery in the USA? Do we acknowledge it was part of a larger trade in the Americas that was being supported and even ran by other European countries? Do we expect them to help pay? It's a very complex and convoluted series of questions and answers. AT the heart of it is a great idea and noble idea to pay for the sins of the past to try to help financially. But the task that it would be to do it right and fair and just could take decades even with a specific focus on it.
I’ve always thought reparations should apply to living individuals and their immediate family alive at the time and be valid under the law as long as they are alive.

The 9/11 victims fund is a great model. It has clear and generous rules that help people who are impacted as long as they live.

What these later discussions seem to be is trying to cover for the failures of the past to do something to current standards. If anything, reparations today should fit what would be expected in 1870.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:10 pm The issue of financially acknowledging slavery has already been done with the trillions of government funded programs meant to help the black community. Racial preferences have been around for decades in job placement, contracts and educational admissions. If trillions and the wholesale rewriting of American laws isn't good enough, what will be enough?
If you think enough has been done to repair the injustice, even though there is a clear disparity between races, then you seem to be saying that black Americans are in a lower social and financial class due to their own intellectual or moral failings and that these failings have nothing to do with the history of their ancestors being enslaved. Is that what you're saying? Will you acknowledge that blacks are in an inferior status position and, if so, what has caused that?
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by phuqueue »

I see my nuclear waste warning went unheeded and now DColeKC is talking about race again
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

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beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:48 pm
DColeKC wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:10 pm The issue of financially acknowledging slavery has already been done with the trillions of government funded programs meant to help the black community. Racial preferences have been around for decades in job placement, contracts and educational admissions. If trillions and the wholesale rewriting of American laws isn't good enough, what will be enough?
If you think enough has been done to repair the injustice, even though there is a clear disparity between races, then you seem to be saying that black Americans are in a lower social and financial class due to their own intellectual or moral failings and that these failings have nothing to do with the history of their ancestors being enslaved. Is that what you're saying? Will you acknowledge that blacks are in an inferior status position and, if so, what has caused that?
I haven't said black Americans are in a lower social or financial class due to their own intellectual failings. I understand that's naturally the goto play when someone disagrees with the need for reparations.

I don't disagree with the facts we have that show blacks in larger state of poverty than whites. How to fix that? I don't have answers but I'm sure reparations won't do it. I've always thought we have to figure out a way to help those communities help themselves to grow and prosper. Like access to small business loans. There's obviously a whole cultural issue where many young black kids idolize bad role models and get caught up in crime because that's what they see as the quickest way to money or even to survive or provide. It only takes one petty crime to create a life long criminal and more access to better education combined with more present parents would be a major improvement. As a society, we can help with the educational access but we can't force parents to be around or not have multiple kids with multiple people. How do you incentivize being a good parent?

The bottom line is, no, I'm not sure there's anyone currently still suffering directly because of slavery that ended 150 years ago. I still think as a country, we need to do all we can to eliminate poverty amongst all races. I just don't think we've found a way to properly do this. We are too rich of a country to have anyone living in poverty or on the streets.
Last edited by DColeKC on Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by DColeKC »

phuqueue wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:04 pm I see my nuclear waste warning went unheeded and now DColeKC is talking about race again
Kind of hard to not talk about race when an article about the Mayor supporting reparations is shared. I know we live in a climate where talking about racial issues scares you, but I think it's possible in here if people keep it mostly respectful. Hard for a few of you to do with talking about anything I'm involved in.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by phuqueue »

I don't actually find most of what you say about race to be even remotely respectful to the actual people you are talking about, even if you remain cordial toward the people you are talking to
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

phuqueue wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:04 pm I see my nuclear waste warning went unheeded and now DColeKC is talking about race again
I didn’t know he talks about race before. I stay out of the politics posts. It all seems so tone deaf I’m just kind of shocked. I guess I shouldn’t be.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by DColeKC »

phuqueue wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:21 pm I don't actually find most of what you say about race to be even remotely respectful to the actual people you are talking about, even if you remain cordial toward the people you are talking to
Well, let's just dance around the hard topics out of fear of being disrespectful why don't we. That'll fix this countries issues! I'm not sure how you'd find anything I've said in this conversation disrespectful. I don't deny the history. I don't disagree with who suffers the most from poverty in this country. I just don't think more reparations will do anything positive for black Americans. You have a portion of this country who may disagree with how to help the problem, but won't say anything realistic or honest. If we are going to acknowledge the issues facing black Americans, you have to include the issues that outside help can't and won't address. If my willingness to bring those topics up is somehow disrespectful, I'm ok with it.

Do you think reparations will help fix the issues facing the black community?
Do you admit or deny there's a major cultural issue in the black community in regards to absentee fathers?
If you admit that's a problem, do you think having more present fathers would be beneficial?


It's pathetic that we can't have open and honest conversations about race without someone being called racist or it being implied that being against certain liberal movements must mean you don't care about minorities or the issues they face.

Wrong - I don't want anyone being forced into crime to survive. I don't want anyone living on the streets or in a neighborhood where street violence is just a part of everyday life. I know crime would be so rare if poverty was rare. I just disagree with some of the suggestions or ideas on how to fix the issues.

But here we are, a small portion of this countries citizens so easily offended we will never solve the issues that need solved the most.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by beautyfromashes »

Pulling out all the accounts to back up this foolishness now.
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DColeKC
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

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beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:14 pm Pulling out all the accounts to back up this foolishness now.
I'm not sure what that even means.
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:38 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:14 pm Pulling out all the accounts to back up this foolishness now.
I'm not sure what that even means.
Implying you operate multiple accounts to back up your statements
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DColeKC
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Re: 2023 KCMO Election

Post by DColeKC »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:41 pm
DColeKC wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:38 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:14 pm Pulling out all the accounts to back up this foolishness now.
I'm not sure what that even means.
Implying you operate multiple accounts to back up your statements
LOL - He can have the admins check my IP address. I'm sure he's shocked not everyone thinks like he does.
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