flyingember wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:27 am
Why do you think someone will suddenly need a fare when leaving KCMO? No one has announced this. All we have so far is a passed resolution to figure out how to fund free bus service. That's it.
The Austin trial lasted ~3 months. It apparently increased ridership by 75% (nearly a doubling) but increased bad riders. It's something to learn from for sure but notice how the streetcar has remained free for almost four years without major incidents. Did you ever consider that we have learned from the very lessons you mention?
I had to look it up to verify, the Austin test lasted over a year, from October 1989 to December 1990.
I hope the KC experiment goes better - but it seems odd not to be looking at others that have tried it in the past.
And comparisons to the streetcar are a bit silly, it has an extremely limited route.
Regarding buses leaving KCMO, that has been asked and answered by city officials. The free fare is ONLY for KCMO routes - will not include Johnson or Wyandotte Counties or other cities in MO (unless those jurisdictions want to pay the bill, and none have indicated they will even consider it).
Do you know KCATA hasn't looked at other past attempts? Looking at cities that have tried in the past, a major reason they didn't continue was apparently due to vandalism in several cases. But these were a long time ago before live video streams were commonplace on buses. KC buses have video monitoring today and KC doesn't have a widespread vandalism problem that other cities have had. Though not sure if all KC buses have video. They should put 'Smile You're on Camera' stickers throughout the buses even if some don't have them. Could reduce issues.
It's worth trying for a couple years. If it doesn't work out, then simply end it.
davidc wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:26 am
Regarding buses leaving KCMO, that has been asked and answered by city officials. The free fare is ONLY for KCMO routes - will not include Johnson or Wyandotte Counties or other cities in MO (unless those jurisdictions want to pay the bill, and none have indicated they will even consider it).
I would also add why should KCMO subsidize non-resident bus travel to/from Johnson and Wyandotte counties without financial contributions from them? Granted, it would likely benefit KCMO residents who work in those counties; but it would again be another example of suburbs who benefit from KCMO assets and don't contribute to them. If those jurisdictions contribute, then fine, extend the free fare to them. I don't know how it works now that KCATA has taken over operating the former Jo routes, and the funding mechanism there.
I'll admit I'm having a hard time finding a source that is not behind a pay-wall on the outside of the city bus stuff. But even in the ordinance itself it explicitly says "...to make fixed route public transportation fare free within the City."
I know it was discussed at least on Ruckus and on KC Week in Review. Also in numerous news reports about the proposal. (a good way to find is to search Johnson County and free fare, for example)
The cataclysmic projects that we've been greasing the axels for years for are finally going to start rolling in now:
2023- New KC airport
2024- KC Current new stadium opening
2025- Streetcar extension opens
2026- South Loop Cap opens
2027- New Royals Stadium opens
2028- ???
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:29 am
The cataclysmic projects that we've been greasing the axels for years for are finally going to start rolling in now:
2023- New KC airport
2024- KC Current new stadium opening
2025- Streetcar extension opens
2026- South Loop Cap opens
2027- New Royals Stadium opens
2028- ???
Airport and a downtown stadium + district are the only major game changers on this list. Streetcar, cal, etc will help but they aren’t regional trajectory changers. A regional transit system would be a direction shifter.
I expect a Convention Center refresh is cooking in the oven right now. Rebuilding Barney Allis Plaza, getting something built at 12th and Broadway, and the Loews Hotel all seem like components that could bridge into a reconstruction of the oldest part of the Convention Center into something state-of-the-art.
Barney Allis they said was prob gonna break ground sometime this year. I think they want it done for the World Cup. CM is really pushing that one from what I’ve read.
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:29 am
The cataclysmic projects that we've been greasing the axels for years for are finally going to start rolling in now:
2023- New KC airport
2024- KC Current new stadium opening
2025- Streetcar extension opens
2026- South Loop Cap opens
2027- New Royals Stadium opens
2028- ???
Airport and a downtown stadium + district are the only major game changers on this list. Streetcar, cal, etc will help but they aren’t regional trajectory changers. A regional transit system would be a direction shifter.
Strongly disagree with that. Streetcar is #2 item I’d pick on that list other than new Airport.
Beyond even just the development the streetcar causes, it’s a visual game-changer for people to see bustling full streetcars going through the spine of the city to UMKC. That changes the whole look and feel of KC in a way that people (even in KC) will have their whole perceptions changed from. I truly think once that streetcar line is up & running it will solidly put KC above current Midwest peers to the average person.
langosta wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:57 pm
You seriously over estimate the impact of streetcar to the broader region.
Not at all. Most people in the region have never had transit even close to that before in their lives. The Plaza with trains & that giant station is especially gonna blow some suburban minds away.
Plenty of cities with downtown baseball. Has had mixed results. Transit, like this, is much more proven to grow a city. People will see it and use much more often than the Royals.
I’m all for the Royals stadium and think it will be huge…but acting like the streetcar is basically irrelevant is ridiculous. The 7me spine will have more impact to visitors viewing KC than Royals. will by 10x.
For my own 2c the streetcar being extended to match the central spine of the urban core absolutely has a huge regional impact. The role it plays in fomenting an urban culture and pride in a city that anchors a heavily suburbanized metro is probably incalculable. The Main Street streetcar has and will continue to play a massive role in the densification of DT and Midtown. The streetcar might not be the most robust piece of mass transit infrastructure, on the purely infrastructural side the airport is higher impact, no argument from me there. But by the end of the decade the streetcar will have influenced many many thousands of housing units to be built in the core city in a dense manner. Especially if the success of the Main Street line allows for NKC and E/W extensions to begin construction this decade... not sure how you can roll your eyes about that kind of impact. I think the potential to have 15+ miles of fixed rail routes finished or under construction by the end of the decade is not to be discounted and is very high priority as far as KC's needs in the 2020s. While I wholeheartedly support DT baseball it would be an easy choice for me to choose building out every streetcar extension/line under serious consideration as a higher priority than getting DT baseball. Fortunately I think we will get both but reasonable people can disagree on KC's biggest needs.
trailerkid wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:27 pm
1. Unity
2. Hard Work
3. Altruism
4. Imagination
5. Love
Interesting to see a old user from before my time return to the forum. Very much enjoyed reading some of your posts in older threads as I have explored the archives. Glad to see you active again.
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:35 pm
I expect a Convention Center refresh is cooking in the oven right now. Rebuilding Barney Allis Plaza, getting something built at 12th and Broadway, and the Loews Hotel all seem like components that could bridge into a reconstruction of the oldest part of the Convention Center into something state-of-the-art.
Voters approved bonds last fall that are for refreshing the convention center
[the bond] will also spend $45 million to address convention facility deferred maintenance, including replacing 15-year-old carpet, repairing outdated restrooms and modernizing technology.
The city had said it was losing convention business because of current shoddy conditions at Bartle Hall.
