More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

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More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by FangKC » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:43 am

Most of the homicides reported in Kansas City, Missouri, happen in an area representing less than 11 percent of the city’s 300-plus square miles.
...
In January 2016, then-KCPD Chief Darryl Forte wrote a blog post about reducing the amount of violent crime in the area. In the post, he shared a map showing the highest concentration of Kansas City’s vacant homes was in the same crime-heavy area.

In his post, Forte, now the Jackson County sheriff, noted there were neighborhoods within the area that weren’t experiencing the same high levels of violent crime. The analysis found that those neighborhoods had fewer vacant homes, and residences seen as vacant and unsafe were quickly demolished.
...
On its website, Jackson County cites a 2005 study from the Georgia Institute of Technology and the Chicago-based Woodstock Institute that shows when a neighborhood sees a 1 percent increase in foreclosures — which leads to more boarded-up, vacant houses —there is a 2.3 percent jump in violent crime in that neighborhood.
...
https://www.kshb.com/news/safe-kc/more- ... -homicides

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by warwickland » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:57 am

11 percent of a 319 square mile city is a massive area, that's 35 square miles, or what would be over half of the city of st. louis. i feel like violent crime in kansas city is constantly downplayed, especially in relation to st. louis. "small area..." ok...

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by chrizow » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:22 am

warwickland wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:57 am
i feel like violent crime in kansas city is constantly downplayed, especially in relation to st. louis. "small area..." ok...
*brandishes uzi*

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by brewcrew1000 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:40 am

warwickland wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:57 am
11 percent of a 319 square mile city is a massive area, that's 35 square miles, or what would be over half of the city of st. louis. i feel like violent crime in kansas city is constantly downplayed, especially in relation to st. louis. "small area..." ok...
I agree 100%, and our size kind of saves us, imagine if KCMO had no Northland, Knobtown/East Edges and Extreme Southern areas past Red Bridge, we would be right up there with St Louis year in and Year out and would probably have the highest crime rate in the country every year

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by rxlexi » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:45 am

i feel like violent crime in kansas city is constantly downplayed, especially in relation to st. louis. "small area..." ok...
Perhaps one difference is proximity of the average local to these areas/crimes. Yes, every now and again there is a shooting in Westport at 3AM or something, but the majority of consistently high-violent crime areas are way off the beaten map for most in the metro.

There appear to be fewer of the high profile downtown killings/car jackings, and fewer areas that are sandwiched between high concentrations of wealth and/or activity, and poverty. This kinds of stuff seems to be more visible in STL to the average person, is my thought. Or at least it appears that way when discussing with the locals there, etc. - it is more top of mind.

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by alejandro46 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:52 am

Need more development and density in the East side. More eyeballs on the streets. This is exactly the kind of area that should be getting big time tax abatement to spur development. Need Beacon Hill + North Troost x35 sq mi.

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am

alejandro46 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:52 am
Need more development and density in the East side. More eyeballs on the streets. This is exactly the kind of area that should be getting big time tax abatement to spur development. Need Beacon Hill + North Troost x35 sq mi.
It’s hard because the lack of density makes development difficult and a poorer demographic doesn’t have as much money to support businesses. Also, crime can destroy a business. I small amount of theft can devastate a bottom line quickly. It’s a terribly hard problem to increase the standing of a neighborhood and not totally change the culture or demographic.

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by KCtoBrooklyn » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:20 am

rxlexi wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:45 am
i feel like violent crime in kansas city is constantly downplayed, especially in relation to st. louis. "small area..." ok...
Perhaps one difference is proximity of the average local to these areas/crimes. Yes, every now and again there is a shooting in Westport at 3AM or something, but the majority of consistently high-violent crime areas are way off the beaten map for most in the metro.

There appear to be fewer of the high profile downtown killings/car jackings, and fewer areas that are sandwiched between high concentrations of wealth and/or activity, and poverty. This kinds of stuff seems to be more visible in STL to the average person, is my thought. Or at least it appears that way when discussing with the locals there, etc. - it is more top of mind.
I agree. While North St Louis definitely has the bulk of violent crime, it doesn't seem as high of a percentage or as isolated as it is to Eastside KC. There are also some pockets of South City with bad crime and there seems to be more spillover to prominent areas of the city.

There also seems to be more random incidents in St Louis of people being shot during muggings/robberies/carjackings as opposed to personal disputes/drugs/gangs. Those incidents still make up a very small portion of violent crime, but they seem much more frequent in STL than KC.

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by brewcrew1000 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:43 am

I remember that Knockout Game a few years back where someone would randomly sucker punch a person, that kind of originated or became viral in St Louis - i don't think that Knockout Game ever spread to KC

I also think crime gets covered up/buried by the news if it happens on the Plaza

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by alejandro46 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:04 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
alejandro46 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:52 am
Need more development and density in the East side. More eyeballs on the streets. This is exactly the kind of area that should be getting big time tax abatement to spur development. Need Beacon Hill + North Troost x35 sq mi.
It’s hard because the lack of density makes development difficult and a poorer demographic doesn’t have as much money to support businesses. Also, crime can destroy a business. I small amount of theft can devastate a bottom line quickly. It’s a terribly hard problem to increase the standing of a neighborhood and not totally change the culture or demographic.

Yep totally agree. It's a difficult question and it should be determined by community stakeholders what they want. I think we all can agree that the East Side should be made safer and new residents improve the community. The question is how can we improve housing stock, increase rent and add more people without completely pricing out existing residents? [Off the cuff] it seems like basically more money is needed; the so called "East Side Tax" is a start (and I disagreed with the concept and execution), but it is what it is. I'd say a few big picture ideas needed are substantial public dollar match for mixed market-rate/subsidized dense apartments, especially on land around 18th vine and moving east from Troost. Need additional funding to rehab vacant lots, remove unneeded streets and add curbs/streetscape improvements to critical thoroughfares, improve on east side transit connections and additional dollars for community policing. KC Public Schools also need help; if we are going to abate further taxes on apartments, likely won't add a ton of school children, but still will need some dollars to continue off recent successes of the district.

Don't continue to throw money at Jazz Museum without a full coherent plan internally made (not by some overpriced consultants) on how to improve attendance and quality of exhibits.

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by warwickland » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:57 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:43 am
I remember that Knockout Game a few years back where someone would randomly sucker punch a person, that kind of originated or became viral in St Louis - i don't think that Knockout Game ever spread to KC

I also think crime gets covered up/buried by the news if it happens on the Plaza
except in westport, where i witnessed it, nearly experienced it, but i guess wasn't reported on much. crime is not as widespread in kc as in st. louis, i think this is true. there's just a lot more areas with a little bit more crime that is heavily reported in st. louis, while i think reporting gets tamped down in kc and there's not the large swath of areas with a bit higher (but livable) crime rate.

but i have to admit, almost *every trip* when i get into an uber in KC and the driver asks about what we are doing and i tell them we are visiting from st. louis, at least one driver brings up CRIME like i'm from Johannesburg. i don't get that in other cities as much, if at all. it usually comes up multiple times during a trip to KC from people that i randomly interact with.
Last edited by warwickland on Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:16 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by warwickland » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:01 pm

rxlexi wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:45 am
i feel like violent crime in kansas city is constantly downplayed, especially in relation to st. louis. "small area..." ok...
Perhaps one difference is proximity of the average local to these areas/crimes. Yes, every now and again there is a shooting in Westport at 3AM or something, but the majority of consistently high-violent crime areas are way off the beaten map for most in the metro.

There appear to be fewer of the high profile downtown killings/car jackings, and fewer areas that are sandwiched between high concentrations of wealth and/or activity, and poverty. This kinds of stuff seems to be more visible in STL to the average person, is my thought. Or at least it appears that way when discussing with the locals there, etc. - it is more top of mind.
i'd agree. the geography is vastly different in st. louis.

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:23 pm

alejandro46 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:04 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 am
alejandro46 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:52 am
Need more development and density in the East side. More eyeballs on the streets. This is exactly the kind of area that should be getting big time tax abatement to spur development. Need Beacon Hill + North Troost x35 sq mi.
It’s hard because the lack of density makes development difficult and a poorer demographic doesn’t have as much money to support businesses. Also, crime can destroy a business. I small amount of theft can devastate a bottom line quickly. It’s a terribly hard problem to increase the standing of a neighborhood and not totally change the culture or demographic.

Yep totally agree. It's a difficult question and it should be determined by community stakeholders what they want. I think we all can agree that the East Side should be made safer and new residents improve the community. The question is how can we improve housing stock, increase rent and add more people without completely pricing out existing residents? [Off the cuff] it seems like basically more money is needed; the so called "East Side Tax" is a start (and I disagreed with the concept and execution), but it is what it is. I'd say a few big picture ideas needed are substantial public dollar match for mixed market-rate/subsidized dense apartments, especially on land around 18th vine and moving east from Troost. Need additional funding to rehab vacant lots, remove unneeded streets and add curbs/streetscape improvements to critical thoroughfares, improve on east side transit connections and additional dollars for community policing. KC Public Schools also need help; if we are going to abate further taxes on apartments, likely won't add a ton of school children, but still will need some dollars to continue off recent successes of the district.

Don't continue to throw money at Jazz Museum without a full coherent plan internally made (not by some overpriced consultants) on how to improve attendance and quality of exhibits.
The East side will get developed. It’s inevitable. Gentrification will continue to move east, continuing past Troost as it is already and then 71. Unfortunately, it will take decades and there will be lots of pain with current residents feeling pushed out. The best thing I could see happen is the city set up a fund to let any long term resident purchase their home. These homes are very cheap but are a great investment. Mortgages would likely be cheaper than renting. I just don’t trust the current ‘power brokers’ wanting funds for development. I think many have personal motives.

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Re: More vacant homes, more violent crime? Small area of Kansas City sees most homicides

Post by FangKC » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:52 am

There's No Such Thing as a Dangerous Neighborhood

Most serious urban violence is concentrated among less than 1 percent of a city’s population. So why are we still criminalizing whole areas?
...
Serious violence is extremely concentrated in very particular places and, most importantly, among very particular people. Dispelling the notion of “dangerous neighborhoods,” extensive research on geographic concentration has consistently found that around half of all crime complaints or incidents of gun violence concentrated at about 5 percent of street segments or blocks in a given city. Moving past “violent communities,” sophisticated analysis of social networks have demonstrated that homicides and shootings are strongly concentrated within small social networks within cities—and that there is even further concentration of violence within these social networks.

For example: In Chicago, a city often used in the media and elsewhere as an example of the worst of American urban violence, researchers found that a social network with only 6 percent of the city’s population accounted for 70 percent of nonfatal gunshot victimizations. Violent crime isn’t waiting to happen on any given block of a poorer neighborhood, nor is it likely to arise from just anyone who happens to live in one.
...
https://www.citylab.com/perspective/201 ... =edit-swap

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