What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

KC topics that don't fit anywhere else.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by chaglang »

The research university discussion has been covered elsewhere on the Rag, but this article got me thinking about how other state and private colleges have absolutely gone head and shoulders above UMKC and Rockhurst. UMKC is probably the best school it's ever been, and Leo Morton has been great as Chancellor, but their reluctance to create their own identity is puzzling. It works counter to all those millions they are spending on new buildings.

Rockhurst, on the other had, has been the victim of continued mediocre leadership. When I started at SLU in the early 90's, it was a two block long campus and a collection of buildings scattered around a fairly dicey section of town. When I went back last fall (exactly 20 years later), the campus had been completely transformed. There were dozens of new or renovated buildings. Literally. Dozens. The president there, Fr. Biondi, comes in for some criticism for being a shameless fundraiser, but the results speak for themselves. Creighton is the same situation. Meanwhile, apart from a parking garage, Rockhurst hasn't built a new building in 15 years and hasn't bothered maintaining what they have. Buildings that should have been torn down years ago are patched along indefinitely. The campus has almost no connection to the neighborhood, or to UMKC. KC may never have a major research university of it's own, but it would be great if the colleges and universities we do have aspired to being something more than a decent local school.

Helling: An even higher goal for our area
But the images of college students and alumni here [for the Big 12 Tournament] are also a sad reminder that Kansas City, almost alone among major American cities, has never built a world-class university.
Now, before the howling starts at the University of Missouri-Kansas City, Rockhurst, Park University, William Jewell and the community colleges, let’s stipulate that those institutions serve an important local need. They provide a high-quality, relatively low-cost post-secondary education for tens of thousands of students. Some offer post-graduate classes in law, dentistry and medicine. Local arts education is particularly strong.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by earthling »

Re: UMKC, public schools that involve state funding need to be careful about becoming research universities. UT/Austin gets a lot of flack for spending mega state money on research as only a few things out of thousands have panned out. The administration becomes more interested in high risk/low return research than core education. Private schools with investors/donations make better research universities. Not sure if Rockhurst can become that. Private institutes like Stowers and Kauffman that work with UMKC is what KC needs more of. There is a new one called Disruption Institute that is to become a mobile app research institute - it's private but affiliated with Kauffman and UMKC.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by chaglang »

Good points. I can see the legislature placing all kinds of whackass restrictions on the money that goes to UMKC, if they don't already.

I didn't know about those partnerships between UMKC, Kauffman, and Stowers. It makes me wonder what is going on with the leadership at Rockhurst.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by earthling »

UMKC often ranks high on lists for the entrepreneurial program, mostly likely due to Kauffman affiliation.

http://www.siliconprairienews.com/2011/ ... urial-city

UMKC also has affiliations with KC Area Life Sciences Institute and Midwest Research Institute. Might be better to affiliate with private research institutes than to directly fund research from the school with state money or tuition. UMKC does get grants for research...

http://lifesciences.umkc.edu/
brewcrew1000
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3104
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:10 am
Location: Broadway/Gilham according to google maps

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by brewcrew1000 »

I never heard of Rockhurst before I got here and didn't realize it was a Jesuit School. In a major city, you would think Rockhurst would be along the same lines as Marquette (Milwaukee), Creighton (Omaha), Xavier (Cincinnati), Georgetown (DC), SLU (St Louis), or even Gonzaga (Spokane). Maybe its there lack of competing in D-1 Basketball that doesn't give it any name recognition.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by chaglang »

I'm not sure about the D-1 thing. It's not doing UMKC much good. Several of those other Jesuit schools have been active in revitalizing their surrounding areas. They're leaders in their cities. Rockhurst does not do that, so I'm not surprised you'd never heard of them. In a metro of medium sized research institutions it shouldn't be that hard to make a name for themselves. I haven't kept up with what's going on there in about 10 years so I don't know this for sure, but I have to think that disinterested leadership is a big part of that. They operated in a bubble for decades and seem happy to continue doing that. It's disappointing.
brewcrew1000
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3104
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:10 am
Location: Broadway/Gilham according to google maps

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by brewcrew1000 »

I'm sure this isn't good for the either schools image either.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/03/22/41 ... -home.html
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by FangKC »

I'd like to see a completely new world-class science and technology university started that has a programs geared towards the basic and advanced sciences, physics and mathematics, engineering, economics, medical research, nanotechnology, robotics, telecommunications, computer sciences, and energy-generation. Sort of a combination of MIT and Johns Hopkins. All of these disciplines are geared to industry and business development, and would help grow our economy in a major way. The research often spins off companies that locate nearby.

Convince a bunch of really wealthy local families to band together and endow this university. People who own American Century, Cerner, Hallmark, Garmin, and local banks (Kempers). Throw in Julia Kauffman, the Helzbergs, the Blochs, and some real estate titans. Others who have big investments in Kansas City like the Hunts.

Wherever it is located, move Midwest Research Institute and the Stower's Institute adjacent to the campus, and have university faculty crossover with appointments at these institutions.

I still think Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences is a good candidate for expansion into this type of institution. It is a private university. It is already Missouri's largest medical school. It already has the medical and biosciences part started. There is a lot of real estate around that campus where more buildings could be constructed. Housing Authority apartments near there could be purchased for on-campus housing. The vast majority of the Paseo West/Jazz Hill neighborhood is light industrial, and could be completely redeveloped for education, research, housing, and spin-off companies. There is plenty of space to build parking garages.

Independence Avenue is slated for a possible streetcar extension. There is freeway access nearby to I-35/29, I-70, and 71/49 highways. There might be a future extension of 24 Highway bypass from 291 through the East Bottoms. KCUMB is right in the center of the Metro.

Having a big university there would help the River Market, P&L, and Jazz districts a lot, since they would attract students.

Students and university employees tend to live close the university, so that would boost population near downtown and in the Old Northeast.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by chaglang »

Awesome idea. I've sat in meetings where local business leaders have bemoaned the gap between what employers need and what the universities are producing. Clearly there is a need for this sort of thing.

There is a program in Boston similar to what you describe, where a group of small local schools specializing in different fields allowed cross-registration. So a student at MassArt could take classes at Boston Architectural, Emerson, Boston Conservatory School, etc.

The Northeast idea is appealing, but (because of my own local biases) I'd love to see it somewhere along Troost. Maybe catacorner to the current Stowers location. That would put MRI, SI, KF, UMKC, and Rockhurst all within a mile of each other.
User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 18142
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by FangKC »

It would need to be further north on Troost--past Cleaver. That area across from Stowers is in a flood plain. All those buildings in that area are at risk of periodic flooding. We can only assume that the rechanneling and flood mitagation work will function as planned.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by chaglang »

brewcrew1000 wrote:I'm sure this isn't good for the either schools image either.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/03/22/41 ... -home.html
BTW, if this is the house I think it is (1 story, white frame house just south of 49th on the east side of B'side Blvd), they built a kickass snowfort after the storms last month. The walls were about 8' tall and enclosed the whole front yard. I think it was on the news.
pstokely
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 790
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:22 pm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by pstokely »

but KC is already a kU town, the billboards say so
IraGlacialis
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:02 pm
Location: Bangkok

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by IraGlacialis »

FangKC wrote:I'd like to see a completely new world-class science and technology university started that has a programs geared towards the basic and advanced sciences, physics and mathematics, engineering, economics, medical research, nanotechnology, robotics, telecommunications, computer sciences, and energy-generation. Sort of a combination of MIT and Johns Hopkins. All of these disciplines are geared to industry and business development, and would help grow our economy in a major way. The research often spins off companies that locate nearby.
It would be pretty cool if Missouri ends up having its own Research Triangle. We already have Rolla for engineering, Mizzou for agriculture and conservation, and WashU for genetics. Medicine and pharmaceuticals could be a great thing for KC to have its niche in especially considering the historical industry of the city. It could then be expanded to the other bioscience and science fields.
I'd go so far as calling for the school to be emphasized on graduate instead of undergrad. We have enough places for the latter, the former promotes the growth of research, and international students are more likely to come for the former.
aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12625
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Regarding Rockhurst:
From Jesuit Institutions website.
The 28 Jesuit colleges and universities in the United States are located in 18 states and the District of Columbia. The institutions range from major research universities to comprehensive universities, from smaller colleges and universities that combine the liberal arts and professional studies to one strictly liberal arts college.
I would imagine that Rockhurst falls into the "smaller colleges and universities that combine the liberal arts and professional studies" category.

Rockhurst has caught flak in the past with some of its expansion into the surrounding neighborhood. It is a landlocked institution so any expansion would take out even more local housing.

Buildings that should have been torn down years ago are patched along indefinitely
Of course, if those buildings were downtown people would be screaming out to preserve them.
but it would be great if the colleges and universities we do have aspired to being something more than a decent local school
What is wrong with being a "decent local school"? I know a few Rock Grads who are proud of the education they received and the networking associated with it.
From its website:
U.S. News & World Report has released their 2014 Best Graduate Schools rankings, listing Rockhurst University’s Helzberg School of Management at #21 among the best business schools for management.

The rankings, released Tuesday, March 12, are largely determined by expert opinions on program excellence and statistical indicators that measure the quality of a university’s faculty, research and students.

“Two years ago, we redesigned our Management MBA to focus on leader formation, high-impact business projects built into the curriculum, and professional development,” said Cheryl McConnell, interim dean of the Helzberg School of Management. “While we will continue to measure our Management MBA programs’ quality by the success of our students, we are honored to receive this national recognition based on nominations from our peer, accredited business programs.”

In addition to appearing in the top 25 among universities such as Harvard, Stanford and Cornell, the Helzberg School of Management is the only Management MBA in the region to be included in these rankings.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by chaglang »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: I would imagine that Rockhurst falls into the "smaller colleges and universities that combine the liberal arts and professional studies" category.
Point? SLU and Creighton fit into the same category and are much better. I'm not asking them to be Georgetown. Not even sure they have the leadership to do that if they wanted to.
aknowledgeableperson wrote: Rockhurst has caught flak in the past with some of its expansion into the surrounding neighborhood. It is a landlocked institution so any expansion would take out even more local housing.
I assume that you haven't been near the campus lately. The area given over to parking lots and empty space is astonishing. They got flak for tearing down buildings along Paseo and turning it into a grassy hill. It was deserved.
aknowledgeableperson wrote: Of course, if those buildings were downtown people would be screaming out to preserve them.
Stop trolling. Two of their three dorms should have been replaced years ago. One of them was briefly declared unsafe and had to be emptied out.
aknowledgeableperson wrote:What is wrong with being a "decent local school"? I know a few Rock Grads who are proud of the education they received and the networking associated with it.
Those are completely unrelated points. 20 years ago, Rockhurst could be reasonably classed with SLU and Creighton. That's not true anymore. In settling for being a decent local school, they've slipped down the ranks of their peer Jesuit schools. Why is that a problem? Because people pay a premium for Jesuit education, and if you're going to drop $28,000 a year (!!!!!!!) for undergrad, there are far, far better Jesuit schools to do that. Or you could just go to one of the other decent local schools and pay far less. Beyond that, Jesuit education is about service and leadership. I don't see any of that out of the school itself, even though there clearly is a need. Hence my disappointment with them.
aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12625
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

chaglang wrote:(1)Point? SLU and Creighton fit into the same category and are much better. I'm not asking them to be Georgetown. Not even sure they have the leadership to do that if they wanted to.

(2)I assume that you haven't been near the campus lately. The area given over to parking lots and empty space is astonishing. They got flak for tearing down buildings along Paseo and turning it into a grassy hill. It was deserved.

(3)Stop trolling. Two of their three dorms should have been replaced years ago. One of them was briefly declared unsafe and had to be emptied out.

(4)Those are completely unrelated points. 20 years ago, Rockhurst could be reasonably classed with SLU and Creighton. That's not true anymore. In settling for being a decent local school, they've slipped down the ranks of their peer Jesuit schools. Why is that a problem? Because people pay a premium for Jesuit education, and if you're going to drop $28,000 a year (!!!!!!!) for undergrad, there are far, far better Jesuit schools to do that. Or you could just go to one of the other decent local schools and pay far less. Beyond that, Jesuit education is about service and leadership. I don't see any of that out of the school itself, even though there clearly is a need. Hence my disappointment with them.
(1)Creighton is twice the size of Rockhurst, student wise. SLU is 4.5 times the size of Rockhurst. So I wouldn't call those other schools small, especially SLU at 14,000 students, and those schools have a more diverse selection of programs than Rockhurst.

(2)Granted I haven't been by lately but looking at an aerial I'm not sure what grassy hill you are talking about. And the empty space that is an grassy courtyard looks in place. Other grassy areas are sport fields.

(3) When did they build the new dorms on Paseo?

(4) If you want to change the nature of Rockhurst then appeal to the Jesuit community. But given the recent mention of the management school I doubt that the school is that low on the Jesuit college scale.
Concerning service:
Students, staff, faculty and alumni are directed by the university mission to Learn, Lead and Serve in the Jesuit tradition. In short, the Rockhurst community is always seeking to make God's good world better, and those efforts begin at home, in Kansas City.

Social Impact

Rockhurst opened its Community Center as an outreach to the 49/63 neighborhood and greater community in 2002. Since then the community center has continued to grow in popularity and continued to provide free meeting space for nonprofit community agencies, civic groups, school district affiliated groups, and neighborhood organizations. 13,156 people crossed the Community Center’s threshold in 2010. More than 50 organizations used spaced for a total of 2,805 hours, which is the economic equivalent of $144,311.

Service in the Jesuit tradition is a paramount piece of the culture and experience of Rockhurst University. Students participate in community service and in service-learning courses at their own will giving on average an aggregate 30,000 hours of service per year. The Finucane Service Project is a student-led service event for new students during orientation in the fall. More than 500 members of the Rockhurst community participate. Safe Trick-or-Treat is a student-led project, which offers neighborhood children a safe place to celebrate Halloween with their families. The families enjoy a “haunted house” and treats. Each year an average of 600-800 visitors attend and more than 80 students volunteer. Students participate in numerous service activities throughout the year, including RU College Bound and Global Youth Service Day. They also create their own service experiences with community organizations.

Rockhurst offers students, who qualify for the Federal Work Study program, the opportunity to participate in Community Work Study, which allows them to tutor or mentor youth in the community. Rockhurst partners with agencies such as the Kansas City Urban Youth Center, Operation Breakthrough, Jumpstart KC, YMCA and St. James United Methodist Church to offer students this unique opportunity to integrate work experience with community service. Students participating in 2010 completed an aggregate 2,940 hours.

Partners

Rockhurst University is in the city for good. The university continues to build strategic partnerships that strengthen our community and offer unique educational opportunities for our students. The university has many long-term community partners. Here are a few for which we hold membership.
•Brush Creek Community Partners
•City of Kansas City, Mo
•Greater Kansas City Chamber of Community
•Southtown Council
•Prep-KC
User avatar
KCMax
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 24051
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
Contact:

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by KCMax »

earthling wrote:Re: UMKC, public schools that involve state funding need to be careful about becoming research universities. UT/Austin gets a lot of flack for spending mega state money on research as only a few things out of thousands have panned out. The administration becomes more interested in high risk/low return research than core education. Private schools with investors/donations make better research universities. Not sure if Rockhurst can become that. Private institutes like Stowers and Kauffman that work with UMKC is what KC needs more of. There is a new one called Disruption Institute that is to become a mobile app research institute - it's private but affiliated with Kauffman and UMKC.
See the constant battles between the KS legislature and KUMC.
pash
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3800
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 am

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by pash »

.
Last edited by pash on Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IraGlacialis
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:02 pm
Location: Bangkok

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by IraGlacialis »

pash wrote:Most major research universities are public, and most funding for research comes in the form of federal grants.

Private universities, particularly those that haven't already build up billion-dollar endowments, have no advantage in producing research. Really, they are saddled with a major disadvantage: undergraduate students paying top dollar to attend expect access to big-name professors, and so tenure-track faculty at private universities often have more substantial teaching obligations than their counterparts at public universities. Research faculty at public schools can often get away with minimal interaction with undergrads, and sometimes have no undergrad teaching obligations at all.
Er... Many private universities such as WashU, and the big-name coastals, get federal research grants exactly the same way that public schools get them.
In the case of the sciences, the only way a school is going to attract a big name professor is if there is research to be had, so that point is moot. Also if research is had, and names are made, there are usually both non-profit and corporate sponsors ready to chip in.
earthling
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8519
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: milky way, orion arm

Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

Post by earthling »

The problem with public schools (partly funded by state money) is that they may be expected to provide core education as a priority for state residents. Some are so focused on the research aspect that the administrators/staff might put core education on the backburner and make the school less accessible to state residents. UT Austin is apparently in that boat right now. There was an article about that situation with UT about a month ago - can't find it.

It can work with public schools but is trickier to pull off if it becomes more of a research university (with usually <2% success rate of research) than a core education university for state residents - that is partly state funded.
Post Reply