Immigrant influences and the positives and negatives of cultural diversity

[tjokskalle]

these photos are depressing me!  This Avenue/blvd has so much potential but its quickly
giving way to latino shops that only cater to latinos with spanish signs and umpa music and
the vibe of tijauna;all that is missing is the donkey act but i`m sure they`re heading north as we speak.

[FangKC]

Well, at least Independence Avenue has tenants.  A good portion of the retail strip around 31st and Troost has none.  At the very least, these enterprises provide a little urban color.

[CoolSarah]

... its quickly giving way to latino shops that only cater to latinos with spanish signs and umpa music and
the vibe of tijauna;all that is missing is the donkey act ...

Maybe you've already noticed? Kafe Kiskeya is located at 3226 East 12th Street. It doesn't fit the mold you mention here. I hope you'll check it out sometime. Since I can't figure out how to post a photo here, you can check them out on my blog. http://www.kafekiskeya.blogspot.com/

[mean]

these photos are depressing me!  This Avenue/blvd has so much potential but its quickly
giving way to latino shops that only cater to latinos with spanish signs and umpa music and
the vibe of tijauna;all that is missing is the donkey act but i`m sure they`re heading north as we speak.

Wow, you're kind of a racist.

"How depressing! All those stores over on Grant have Chinese squiggle writing on the signs. They even pluck these crazy looking 3-stringed guitars and talk that ching chang chong talk. Next thing you know we'll all be communists like them Chinese!"

[phna]

these photos are depressing me!  This Avenue/blvd has so much potential but its quickly
giving way to latino shops that only cater to latinos with spanish signs and umpa music and
the vibe of tijauna;all that is missing is the donkey act but i`m sure they`re heading north as we speak.

The same thing is going on with the Somali restaurants, they only cater to themselves. I go to Towfiq Halal (at Lexington and Park) for Sambusa (spelling) sometimes. Now Dar Salam opened up on Independence and the parking lot is full of Cabbies on their breaks. I have not gone here to eat yet, but I don't see it being patronized by anybody other than Somalis. Ironically, this is only to their own detriment. Rumor has it Towfiq Halal is going under because Dar Salam is getting the business.

[mean]

Jeez, does every person who comes to America and opens a business have to cater specifically to us? Do you think they're going to hire market research firms to do studies on what Americans like?

In my opinion it's more interesting to check out a place that seems like a person has created it to be a place they would enjoy visiting, whether they're from Texas or Timbuktu.

[Roanoker]

...I can't figure out how to post a photo here

CoolSarah~

Tosspot explains how to do it at http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php/topic,10188.0.html

[tjokskalle]

  E Pluribus Unum  That says it all really.I cant help but see division and my comments and
observations are not "racist" as some of you might think;when you see nothing but signs in spanish,that
oozes exclusion rather than inclusion in my opinion.when my dad came to this country,he worked hard to learn the language and to take part in "American" culture;his electricians shop had a business sign and it was in ENGLISH which by the way was good for  business because everybody could understand just what the hell it said.

[mean]

Virtually all of the important signs have English translations. If these folks are attempting to exclude anybody, they haven't acted like it to me yet.

[phna]

Jeez, does every person who comes to America and opens a business have to cater specifically to us? Do you think they're going to hire market research firms to do studies on what Americans like?

In my opinion it's more interesting to check out a place that seems like a person has created it to be a place they would enjoy visiting, whether they're from Texas or Timbuktu.

This conversation  needs new thread... can the moderator split this off?

Who is "us"?

The challenge of diversity is achieving full participation.

I think it is great that the Somali, Sudanese, Vietnamese, Korean, and Italian communities have businesses in the Northeast. I embrace diversity and want to participate in it, one simple way I try to do this is sampling ethnic cuisine--there are many other ways to participate. St. Pat's Day is a participatory day celebrating Irish Immigration to the United States. Cinco de Mayo was another celebration of another culture, at each everyone is welcome to these celebrations, regardless of their heritage. There are too many others to mention.

  Just as "birds of a feather, flock together" it is natural for ethnic communities to congregate at businesses or places which meet their specific needs, human history shows it occurred for other reasons too. Notwithstanding the negative connotations of the word Ghetto, recall it's original definition applied to a specific ethnic community--Jews. This area may have an African ghetto and Latino ghetto, in it's past it may have been the Italian ghetto.  Together the sum of these individual communities somehow evolves to "us" or as TJ aptly pointed out E Pluribus "Unum".

I am not judging or criticizing the business practices, but for the fact that it doesn't serve the interest of one community to leave out the desired participation of another community.  You don't need a market analyst to figure that one out.

Who is "us" or American? Huge HUGE question. Tomes have been written about this one question. Suggested readings?

Open another thread please.

[Tosspot]

Open another thread please.

Okay.

[phna]

Maybe you've already noticed? Kafe Kiskeya is located at 3226 East 12th Street. It doesn't fit the mold you mention here. I hope you'll check it out sometime. Since I can't figure out how to post a photo here, you can check them out on my blog. http://www.kafekiskeya.blogspot.com/

See you there soon!!!

[mean]

This conversation  needs new thread... can the moderator split this off?

Who is "us"?

I thought from context it was pretty clear, but if not I meant native-born, English-speaking American citizens in general.

The challenge of diversity is achieving full participation.

I agree, and the responsibility to participate is everyone's.

I am not judging or criticizing the business practices, but for the fact that it doesn't serve the interest of one community to leave out the desired participation of another community.  You don't need a market analyst to figure that one out.

I don't quite follow what you're saying here. Could you clarify?

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I would respond by pointing out that all businesses serve the interests of their target customers. If I didn't like wine, I probably wouldn't go to a wine bar because there is likely nothing there for me. On the other hand, if a restaurant only has signs in Spanish (which, for the record, I rarely if ever see) it is probably the kind of little dive I would love to check out.

That said, I know plenty of people who would be hesitant if not afraid to go into a place like that, or even Papa Lew's over on 12th for that matter. Their loss, I figure. But who is "participating" less? The person who feels excluded (because they don't like wine, or don't like signs in Spanish) and stays away, or the people who open their businesses and target a particular audience?

Who is "us" or American? Huge HUGE question. Tomes have been written about this one question. Suggested readings?

I was referring specifically to people born in America who speak English as a first language, regardless of the ethnicity of their parents or grandparents. For the sake of argument, this would exclude American-born children of immigrants who learn their native tongue first. There is no particular reason this should be, and I'm not saying it is a valid definition, it is just what I had in mind when I used the phrase.

[Maitre D]

I agree, and the responsibility to participate is everyone's.

"Responsibility".

I don't like that word.

[KCMax]

As the son of an immigrant, let me say that it is very, very difficult to learn a new language when one is an adult and working full time. Even when one learns English, they usually feel more comfortable reading in their native language. And its always nice to have others around who speak your language to make you feel comfortable. Sure immigrants should assimilate, but they also shouldn't forget where their roots are.

[justin8216]

If Illegal immigrants have KS drivers licences and all you need to register to vote is a Drivers License #, then how do they prevent people who are not US citizens from voting in our elections?

That is the question I asked the Wyandotte County Election Commissioner this week at my election judge training class.

He became visibly nervous and came up with some story that they research tax and motor vehicle records to make sure a person is a legal citizen, which I find hard to believe. How can they tell that from those records?

He also said and besides they wouldn't do that because it clearly states in ENGLISH on the voter registration application that it is a "illegal". Well being "illegal" hasn't stopped them from living here so why would it stop them from voting here?

Does this bother anyone else?

I know tons of Mexican illegals with Drivers Licences, car loans, licences plates, insurance, they pay their motor vehicle taxes. How are they preventing them from registering to and voting?

We have got to get a National Identification Card and state Drivers licences aren't going to cut it. We need something that is issued by the federal government.

[KCTigerFan]

Can we start a petition to retroactively deport all of my relatives?  Granted they came here in late 1700's and early 1800's, but my Irish, Swedish and German ancestors were filthy people who lived in run down neighborhoods, stuck with others of their kind, took jobs from hard working Americans and ate gross food.  I hear that my great great great grandparents didn't even bother to learn English!  They spoke German their whole lives, even in our country!  Let's send them all back!!!

[Gretz]

Can we start a petition to retroactively deport all of my relatives?  Granted they came here in late 1700's and early 1800's, but my Irish, Swedish and German ancestors were filthy people who lived in run down neighborhoods, stuck with others of their kind, took jobs from hard working Americans and ate gross food.  I hear that my great great great grandparents didn't even bother to learn English!  They spoke German their whole lives, even in our country!  Let's send them all back!!!

  Well said!  Only white-anglo saxon protestants should be allowed to immigrate to the US.  In fact I'm going to deport myself and try to get the INS on my whole home-town.  Even though my neighborhood (Montrose-Germantown-Urich MO) was settled in the 1870s it wasn't until 1941 that people took down the German signs that many businesses had on their store fronts.  Much of the conversation in the old barbershop was in German well into the fifties and sixties! Those treacherous krauts were trying to undemine American society by speaking their native language to one-another, settling with people they knew from the fatherland and buying farmland out from under the aboriginal English inhabitants.  Now they fly American flags, drink Bud-products and largely vote Republican but I'm not fooled; growing up for Christmas concerts we still sang the perversion of the O Christmas tree song known as O Tannenbaum.  I'm ashamed of myself and my culture.  The only positive thing that can be said is that at least we aren't Poles. 

[justin8216]

  Well said!  Only white-anglo saxon protestants should be allowed to immigrate to the US.  In fact I'm going to deport myself and try to get the INS on my whole home-town.  Even though my neighborhood (Montrose-Germantown-Urich MO) was settled in the 1870s it wasn't until 1941 that people took down the German signs that many businesses had on their store fronts.  Much of the conversation in the old barbershop was in German well into the fifties and sixties! Those treacherous krauts were trying to undemine American society by speaking their native language to one-another, settling with people they knew from the fatherland and buying farmland out from under the aboriginal English inhabitants.  Now they fly American flags, drink Bud-products and largely vote Republican but I'm not fooled; growing up for Christmas concerts we still sang the perversion of the O Christmas tree song known as O Tannenbaum.  I'm ashamed of myself and my culture.  The only positive thing that can be said is that at least we aren't Poles. 

The difference is those immigrants such as the Germans you spoke of came here legally and became US citizens, learned English, and were entitled to vote. Our newest immigrants aren't doing any of that and aren't entitled to vote. Its common sense really. I'm for absolute amnesty. But until they learn English and receive their citizenship papers they should not be voting in our elections. We could literally have Chinese, Russian, or Al Qaida operatives voting in our elections.

[mean]

"Responsibility".

I don't like that word.

Bad choice of words. You are of course free to not participate in society if that's your wish, I just meant that it is one's responsibility to participate in society if one doesn't want to feel excluded. Neither society in general, nor immigrant business owners in particular, have any responsibility to research what makes Joe Sixpack feel "included"--it's all on Joe, I'm saying.