KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[loftguy]

The famous air filter company owner is now claiming even a single day of access blockage will put her out of business. None of us can say that's not true, but...

She forgot that, assuming the streetcar doesn't pass, when the city does an overlay on Grand someday they'll shut down that segment of street
Or if they do sidewalk work
her natural gas comes in on the front of the building. what if they need to do emergency line work?
and there's a water line out front because of the hydrant. lots of mains downtown have been breaking
and there's the big sewer project coming, I believe downtown is part of it
electrical is across the street. it's plausable they might need to block the street if there's work to do on it, say replacing the poles.

So the idea that she has her business so sensitive to that many things not ever being maintained is just unrealistic. I'd be amazed if there was no rear entrance off the alley knowing how her front entrance can be so easily blocked so many ways. if not that would make my opinion change from her being negative to her being incompetent and market forces will take care of the situation for her

I believe the city will treat her business equally well with all the others in the area just like they would with a water services project. after all, her segment of street is also a key parking lot for the city market. We all know it's up to her to plan how she runs her business to account for the disruption.

There is a pattern here.

Ten years ago, when the River Market neighborhood was working to develop a Community Improvement District (yellow jacketed ambassadors) she, the owner of the air filter company, was in front of the television stations and KC Star reporters, in hysterics about how the additional cost for the district was going to destroy her business and that she would have no choice but to either close her business, or to end her lease and move to North Kansas City, where they don't even charge earnings tax.

The CID passed and a couple of years later she bought the building she was renting, from her landlord.

Excuse me while I weep for her difficulties.

[smh]

The famous air filter company owner is now claiming even a single day of access blockage will put her out of business. None of us can say that's not true, but...

She forgot that, assuming the streetcar doesn't pass, when the city does an overlay on Grand someday they'll shut down that segment of street
Or if they do sidewalk work
her natural gas comes in on the front of the building. what if they need to do emergency line work?
and there's a water line out front because of the hydrant. lots of mains downtown have been breaking
and there's the big sewer project coming, I believe downtown is part of it
electrical is across the street. it's plausable they might need to block the street if there's work to do on it, say replacing the poles.

So the idea that she has her business so sensitive to that many things not ever being maintained is just unrealistic. I'd be amazed if there was no rear entrance off the alley knowing how her front entrance can be so easily blocked so many ways. if not that would make my opinion change from her being negative to her being incompetent and market forces will take care of the situation for her

I believe the city will treat her business equally well with all the others in the area just like they would with a water services project. after all, her segment of street is also a key parking lot for the city market. We all know it's up to her to plan how she runs her business to account for the disruption.

There is a pattern here.

Ten years ago, when the River Market neighborhood was working to develop a Community Improvement District (yellow jacketed ambassadors) she, the owner of the air filter company, was in front of the television stations and KC Star reporters, in hysterics about how the additional cost for the district was going to destroy her business and that she would have no choice but to either close her business, or to end her lease and move to North Kansas City, where they don't even charge earnings tax.

The CID passed and a couple of years later she bought the building she was renting, from her landlord.

Excuse me while I weep for her difficulties.

I weep for the fact that she most likely will not go out of business. Which will then have the effect of delaying my redevelopment vision for that block.

My totally unfunded/not-based-in-reality redevelopment vision.

[flyingember]

Huh. Now she's suggesting that unless the election board breaks the law and tells who voted which way that the whole thing is rigged. (see quote below)

It's now obvious she's grasping at straws more than anything. I can't help but wonder if her talking about moving was just bluster, as much as the idea that a single day closed would kill her business. Neither moving or the increased assessed value of her property from the line would be cheap. With such a low margin business, usually in huge industrial areas with little property value, I can't imagine the business could easily absorb either option.

I bet she seriously is between a rock and a hard place but is handling it the wrong way. She never formally petitioned against the district when the opportunity arose and now she is making things up.

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"Because the vote is rigged. It WILL pass. There will be no public reading of the ballots, of who voted yes and who voted no. It will be announced that 99% of the ballots submitted correctly were yes votes. And the judge who set this all in motion, Judge Atwell is retiring, going into private practice, and will probably end up getting legal business from the city related to the streetcar. It was all engineered this way from the beginning."
-susiesan

from the comments on http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/01/39 ... ision.html

[DaveKCMO]

she did show up in court for the public hearing and made the same wild exaggerations. please do us all a favor and stop taking her bait.

[kboish]

Huh. Now she's suggesting that unless the election board breaks the law and tells who voted which way that the whole thing is rigged. (see quote below)

It's now obvious she's grasping at straws more than anything. I can't help but wonder if her talking about moving was just bluster, as much as the idea that a single day closed would kill her business. Neither moving or the increased assessed value of her property from the line would be cheap. With such a low margin business, usually in huge industrial areas with little property value, I can't imagine the business could easily absorb either option.

I bet she seriously is between a rock and a hard place but is handling it the wrong way. She never formally petitioned against the district when the opportunity arose and now she is making things up.

---------------------

"Because the vote is rigged. It WILL pass. There will be no public reading of the ballots, of who voted yes and who voted no. It will be announced that 99% of the ballots submitted correctly were yes votes. And the judge who set this all in motion, Judge Atwell is retiring, going into private practice, and will probably end up getting legal business from the city related to the streetcar. It was all engineered this way from the beginning."
-susiesan

from the comments on http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/01/39 ... ision.html

wow ember. i just spent awhile going through your valiant defense of the streetcar and attempts to "educate" the people spreading wild mistruths and blatant lies. Its kind of nice to have someone take on the crazies of the Star's comment section but that is seriously a battle you will never win.

[loftguy]

Ember, perhaps you are just a nice person, but to assume that her business is a low margin operation is flawed.

My opinion here, but I believe her to be a greedy, shortsighted, self centered whiner, who relishes the spotlight provided to her ranting antics.

I choose now to deal with her the way I do screaming children in the grocery store. Curse under my breath and move quickly, as far away from their sticky fingers and raging tears as I can.

[flyingember]

I'm really not posting the responses to get those people to change. I don't expect them to.

I'm doing it for the huge number of people who don't post comments but still read them and need the responses so they know the counterpoint. Negativity and pessimism looks all the more so when it's followed up with positivity.

In person it's no doubt a better idea to ignore. But online is somewhat different. There needs to be a followup that sticks in people's minds.

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Perhaps I'm wrong her business is low margin. That certainly is possible. But I've found working off the assumption that someone is well meaning but misguided is harder for them to push back on without them looking bad in the process. Treating her as desperate but misguided is better than treating her as negative and whiny online. So when she ignores the alley and then has an excuse about it when I bring it up she's hurting herself.

All it takes is ignoring her idea that we should open up ballots and suddenly a movement grows around it, not understanding that's illegal. Look at


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In the end, you don't have to change the posters minds. You just have to stop them from changing other people's minds. It's the classic chicken little thing. Once enough people recognize that certain ideas are nutty they start to recognize that perhaps the people who push those ideas are wrong about other things too.

[flyingember]

I suggested to the author of one of the recent streetcar pieces to do a general KC area TDD/CID article.

I'm really hoping it's written since I'd like to see how different districts in MO and KS and in different cities and counties compare in terms of how much money they earn and such and if they're following the original purpose still.

[flyingember]

You may wonder why it's important to understand why one must fight now when turning the other cheek is better right now.

Go look at who was the main opposition to the last light rail ballot.
Then drive to 3200/3300 block of main. The car wash owners were part of the core of that opposition.

They're not affected now so they didn't get involved. Who knows why?
But once they're going to be taxed you can count on them rebuilding a formal opposition.

Paint the streetcar as only affordable only downtown and they'll quote the star there. Instead we need to paint it as a necessity for the people of midtown and the east side. Economic development for people with money is not going to sway someone working minimum wage, we need facts on upward mobility through fixed rail transit. Find peer cities where people needing better jobs found it though development pegged to a train.

And luckily this kind of positive influence is happening. See David visiting the Independence Ave meeting as a great example of what needs to be done. But if the streetcar authority wants to see phase 2 it's going to take a lot more forward looking right now. And with too much to be done, it's almost like it needs to find outsiders in the new areas to help with the grassroots campaign on expansion. Let threcity find the money where the groundwork has been laid. It wouldn't hurt if our next federal application included citizen petitions with hundreds of signatures.

[knucklehead]

A couple of things about opponents.

First, they may be looking to get paid off to go away in the form of some concession. They may not even know exactly what they want. They may just feel that if they raise enough of a stink, someone will give them something to shut up.

Second, the media is always going to try to find opponents and hype them. Conflict is an easy story line to push and generates page views.

[chaglang]

A couple of things about opponents.

First, they may be looking to get paid off to go away in the form of some concession. They may not even know exactly what they want. They may just feel that if they raise enough of a stink, someone will give them something to shut up.

Second, the media is always going to try to find opponents and hype them. Conflict is an easy story line to push and generates page views.

Yes. Also, if the media can find one opponent it gives the illusion that they are presenting balanced coverage. Readers/veiwers assume that the number of quotes from each side are proportional to the amount of opposition when they're not. This approach to coverage lends validity to positions that have none.

[DaveKCMO]

There is no funded opposition. Just remind yourself how RARE that is.

[flyingember]

There is no funded opposition. Just remind yourself how RARE that is.

no argument there. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

[chingon]

Bizjournal has HDR, the firm that did the conceptual work, as getting the design contract.

[DaveKCMO]

HDR also did our alternatives analysis phase and just nabbed the dallas streetcar contract: http://www.hdrinc.com/about-hdr/news-an ... design-bui

not sure if anyone remembers, but URS was the lead on the 2008 light rail AA.

[pash]

.

[KCMax]

Haven't had the chance to read this yet, but the streetcar is the indepth cover story for the Pitch this week.

Pitch: Is the downtown streetcar a development engine or a luxury vehicle?

[DaveKCMO]

"If we had done this 15 years ago, KC would be a very different place right now," he continues. "There are always going to be people who are comfortable with the status quo. That's how you get left behind. People say, 'We're not Portland.' Well, that's not the way to think about it. Portland became Portland. Seattle became Seattle. Kansas City needs to become Kansas City."

[grovester]

Haven't had the chance to read this yet, but the streetcar is the indepth cover story for the Pitch this week.

Pitch: Is the downtown streetcar a development engine or a luxury vehicle?

Good article, probably not much new for raggers. Good point about taxation and representation, property owners don't get to vote on school assessment, which are much higher and that the last school board election turnout was 3% versus the TDD turnout of 18%.

[kucer]

As long as KC doesn't become Tampa..it's all good.