KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[flyingember]

i will get an answer from the actual engineer. hold, please...

if you follow the preliminary route paper document (posted here way back) the weaving makes much more sense. there are places here and there that one could question, thus why final engineering is done.

it's hugging the curb as much as possible while avoiding the new street parking being put in. that parking isn't shown on the video.

[flyingember]

That's obviously from someone who hasn't been in the Link lately. That thing is clogged with families happily slogging between CC and US. For whatever reason, small children absolutely love sprinting through that thing.

slogging down the fully climate controlled path
I use it because in the winter it's heated and there's no other good way between the two spots.

this is also an example where having free parking at crown center on weekends and paid at union station drives people's decisions, they'll walk because the alternative to driving is good enough. which has an interesting parallel to the streetcar starting out free

[chaglang]

That's obviously from someone who hasn't been in the Link lately. That thing is clogged with families happily slogging between CC and US. For whatever reason, small children absolutely love sprinting through that thing.

slogging down the fully climate controlled path
I use it because in the winter it's heated and there's no other good way between the two spots.

this is also an example where having free parking at crown center on weekends and paid at union station drives people's decisions, they'll walk because the alternative to driving is good enough. which has an interesting parallel to the streetcar starting out free

Bingo. And all of that, despite the route from the CC shops to US being poorly marked (especially through the hotel) and winding.

[DaveKCMO]

The route seems excessively winding. From what I've read, curved track work adds considerably to the cost and length of construction. Are they trying to avoid utilities or what?

the lead engineer says minor lane shifts don't add any significant cost and are required for this alignment since we're sharing space with cars and not all station stops are situated identically along the route due to space constraints.

[Pork Chop]

ride the route: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmrQyN6KETc

On a different note, the chosen station locations in the River Market pose a potential problem if the line is extended to NKC or to the Old NE. Northbound trains would only hit one of the three River Market stations without backtracking. Southbound trains would hit two of three. Does River Market really need three stations? Two stations seems plenty.

I also have an issue with the routing of the streetcar around the River Market. I like the original design where the streetcar ended at 3rd and Grand and where it can take advantage of the parking lot that's located there. Also, it can eventually be extend down Grand and through the River Front Road:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=kcmo&hl=e ... s&t=h&z=17

The area around Berkeley Park is perfect to be able to create a TOD multi-use village for residential, retail and commercial purposes. Plus, it can be a good reason to redesign Grand (from 3rd Street to the park) to accommodate not just the streetcar, but bikes and pedestrians as well.

Unless it's due to some engineering reasons, I think we are locking ourselves in with plan as it is now and it would make in more difficult to extend it in the future.

Although I can understand wanting to make it easier to grow the River Market towards the west by having a stop closer to that area, but it would not be that far of a walk to reach the closest station in the original design.

[flyingember]

I also have an issue with the routing of the streetcar around the River Market. I like the original design where the streetcar ended at 3rd and Grand and where it can take advantage of the parking lot that's located there. Also, it can eventually be extend down Grand and through the River Front Road:

Wasn't the alternative moving the line, given the grade problems at 5th and Delaware? Like they couldn't do the current setup.

One can be principled until reality sets in. Then reality wins.

[Pork Chop]

I also have an issue with the routing of the streetcar around the River Market. I like the original design where the streetcar ended at 3rd and Grand and where it can take advantage of the parking lot that's located there. Also, it can eventually be extend down Grand and through the River Front Road:

Wasn't the alternative moving the line, given the grade problems at 5th and Delaware? Like they couldn't do the current setup.

One can be principled until reality sets in. Then reality wins.

As I said in my last post:

Unless it's due to some engineering reasons...

[flyingember]

I also have an issue with the routing of the streetcar around the River Market. I like the original design where the streetcar ended at 3rd and Grand and where it can take advantage of the parking lot that's located there. Also, it can eventually be extend down Grand and through the River Front Road:

Wasn't the alternative moving the line, given the grade problems at 5th and Delaware? Like they couldn't do the current setup.

One can be principled until reality sets in. Then reality wins.

As I said in my last post:

Unless it's due to some engineering reasons...

yeah, that fact has been known since summer.
the grade at 5th and Delaware was wrong for a rail turn in both lanes.

[DaveKCMO]

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... -main.html

A release from a Dec. 21 stakeholder meeting, written by el dorado and provided by the city, said the project is in the design phase. The final design is expected to be completed between February and March. Bidding for contractors will run from April 30 to May 15, and construction is scheduled to begin in mid-June. The project should be finished by Dec. 30, the release said.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... inues.html

The Kansas City Streetcar Authority Inc. will meet to discuss progress made on finding an operator and a vehicle on Wednesday, Chairman Tom Trabon said.

[chaglang]

I was bumping around in the far corners of the Rag and came across this gem of a light rail thread from 2005. What's remarkable is how the consensus around the mode of transportation and the route are very close to what the Phase 1 and potential Phase 2 look like:

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7036

Mean: I think the pro-transit people on this board could put together a pretty good KC-only, or even multi-municipality (KCMO, NKC, Indep, maybe BS and LS, etc) plan and engage in a successful petition drive to get a ballot measure voted on.

[DaveKCMO]

official project website launched today: http://kcstreetcar.org

also: http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... tarts.html

During the almost two-hour meeting, the board members of the nonprofit — made up of 13 representatives of local government and business interests — provided updates on their search for a streetcar operator, formed a committee to handle marketing the line, debated the merit of high-tech amenities inside the streetcar versus the cost of installing such amenities and decided that the authority and the city have an obligation to contact property owners on Main Street along the 2.2-mile line to hear their concerns.

[KCMax]

TKC BREAKING AND EXCLUSIVE NEWS!!! LAWSUIT AGAINST THE KANSAS CITY TOY TRAIN STREETCAR FILED TODAY!!!

A few of the names Kansas City denizens might recognize but CLEARLY this is a welcomed challenge to a despicable plan which attempts to railroad local voters and taxpayers.

Expect more details from other newsies but remember you read it FIRST here on TKC.

UPDATE: Lots of VERY serious people on this lawsuit . . .

THAT'S RIGHT!!! KANSAS CITY ARTIST AND CROSSROADS BIZ OWNER STRETCH MIGHT HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE LAWSUIT TOO!!! AT THE VERY LEAST, HE WAS PART OF THE VERY FUN PLANNING STAGES!!!

[chingon]

I hope the paper of record picks this up quick so I can know who to boycott.

[loftguy]

A sincere question. Has anyone heard an informed and reasoned argument against the streetcar?

I have met people who really should know better and of course some idjits, too, that reference the waste, the unscrupulous vote, the messed up city council and mayor, the need to fix potholes, that buses are cheaper, the development cabal that is stealing the citys resources.......

I'm wondering if I'm so close to this topic that I can't see, and I really want to know if there exists a school of thought that should be considered.

[smh]

http://midwestdemocracy.com/articles/la ... streetcar/

[smh]

Sue and Stretch.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... 2013-01-31

[chaglang]

Sue and Stretch.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... 2013-01-31

Stretch made a major mistake in signing on with this. Win or lose, he burns a ton of goodwill.

Not knowing the particulars, I'd think that if this had any merit there would be a Kemper involved.

[smh]

Sue and Stretch.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... 2013-01-31

Stretch made a major mistake in signing on with this. Win or lose, he burns a ton of goodwill.

Not knowing the particulars, I'd think that if this had any merit there would be a Kemper involved.

Sure does seem like a fringe suit at first glance. Filed by an attorney who doesn't have a website. WHO DOESN'T HAVE A WEBSITE.

I'm suspicious of anything Sue Burke is involved with based on her previous comments about this project.

[grovester]

To be expected from one, pretty disappointing from the other.

[beautyfromashes]

Stretch made a major mistake in signing on with this. Win or lose, he burns a ton of goodwill.

Chastain's ego resurrected.