North Korea.. Celebrating the 4th?

[MidWestSider]

North Korea reportedly launched 7 test missiles on the 4th including the heavily debated long-range intercontinental nuclear capable prototype.

My question..  How should we respond?  Have they really done anything wrong?  Is this a case of them knowing the U.S. military is stretched to max capacity and they are simply calling our bluff?

Their test date happening to fall on the 4th of July was no co-ink-a-dink.  This was a message!

[KCMax]

Kim Jong Il is so ronery.

[tat2kc]

of course it was a message. and no, the US won't do anything but talk tough. We can't do anything else.  Too bogged down in a country that was no threat to us to be able to respond to a country or countries that may, in fact, actually be a threat (N Korea, Iran).  Its so much easier to invade and conquer a weak country like Iraq than to handle the real rougue nations.  All this shows is that in order to be safe from invasion or actual retaliation, a nation has to have nukes, or a massive army. After all, we rewarded Pakistan, didn't we?  

Any bets on how quickly this thread will be locked?  :)

[skim82]

Kim Jong Il may be the most ruthless leader (so called) in the world today.

He starves the over 20+ million of his people, and will only allow International Food Aid to serve his army of over 1.8 million active soilders. 

Don't forget, North Korea has the 2nd largest standing army in the world.  If a war should break out, they have highly skilled soilders to deploy at a moment's notice.

As a Korean-American, it saddens me to see the state in which North Korea is.  They have very minimal natural resources, their land is comprised of cold weather, rugged mountains, and almost unmeasureable education levels. 

Let's not forget one thing though, This "missle" may have not been a direct "message" to us, it may have just been a sign to Japan that they could destroy their country in a matter of mere moments.

Many people may not know this, but Japan imperialized much of Asia (and tried with us, see Hawaii) in the mid 1900's. 

Japan has still refused to acknowledge any of the inhumane acts such as rape, molestation, and also stripping countries like China, N and S Korea, etc during it's so called colonization of Asia.

To this day, there is a lot of tension between arguably two of the weatlhiest and educated countries in Asia (S. Korea and Japan).  The rivalry between these two countries is way beyond technology with extreme Chaebols like Mitsubishi, Honda, Toyota, LG, Samsung, Daewoo, dominating the Asian tech markets... but also with the World Baseball Classic and World Cup Soccer.

Also to be noted is the still continuing feud between the Koreans and Japanese over a small island situated in the East Korean Sea (Dong Hae) and the Sea of Japan.  This island contains an immense amount of underground Oil, and at many times during the last few years has made international headlines.  Needless to say, both Korean and Japanese politicians have been having a pissing match over this island for awhile now.

So, my point is, YES, we should take N. Korea serioulsy, but at the same time, I'm sure these "missles" are just a way to notify the world that N. Korea is a threat.  Remember, every time they need food or aid, N. Korea pulls these pranks as a bargaining tool.

But I'm sure the Japanese have more to worry about this than we do.   

[Moniker]

Ping pong ping!

[bahua]

Don't forget, North Korea has the 2nd largest standing army in the world. 

Wikipedia says they have the fifth largest standing army, and I'm skeptical as to the extent and quality of their training.

[KCMax]

Their army has equipment and ammunition supplied by the Chinese and they have been raised from birth to give unyielding allegiance towards North Korea and their god-like Dear Leader Kim Jong Il. These aren't exactly the Iraqi Republican Army we'd be dealing with.

We have enough problems with a couple radical Islamic yahoos with a stick of dynamite. I don't want to think what would happen if we tangled with a few million cult followers with nuclear capabilities.

[Thrillcekr]

Wikipedia says they have the fifth largest standing army, and I'm skeptical as to the extent and quality of their training.

Who really knows since they are so secretive.  History teaches us that it would be foolish to underestimate them though.  The British made that mistake one time.  So did we in Vietnam and it appears we may be giving a repeat performance in Iraq.  You don't have to have cutting edge weaponry to be a good fighting machine.  Guerilla fighters all over the world have proven that time and time again.  The Chinese fought us with nothing short of junk in Korea and came within an ass hair of sending us home licking our wounds until we managed to turn them back and bring things to a stalemate.

I agree with Tat.  They and the Iranians took advantage of our stupidity by seizing the opportunity to develop their nuclear arsenals while we were too occupied to really do anything about it.  I seriously doubt that we would have done anything anyways since the Chinese and the Russians have been somewhat wishy washy on their stance over North Korea's program.  They claim they don't like it but they don't even support sanctioning North Korea so that's something to be leery about.  That's one can of worms that the boys in Washington would not want to open. If we were to take military action and China and Russia didn't agree with it and were to back North Korea then we'd have probably bitten off a whole lot more than we could chew.

[Tosspot]

Hell, even colonial rebels resorted to guerilla tactics against the British military; it's more common than people think.

[Gladstoner]

Send over the Film Actors Guild. It's been kind of a slow year for movies, so they may have some extra time on their hands. 

[skim82]

Wikipedia says they have the fifth largest standing army, and I'm skeptical as to the extent and quality of their training.

Hmm.. okay, well, 5th or 2nd... its still a machine.  North Korean males are mandated to serve for their leader Kim Jong Il, and most soilders become so entrenched in the daily meals that are given to soilders that many stay in (active duty) almost half their lives.

Besides, when has wikipedia ever set foot inside NK?  I was quoting a source in the late 90's by TIME magazine.  I probably should have been more up to date on the stats before posting.

[bahua]

Their army has equipment and ammunition supplied by the Chinese and they have been raised from birth to give unyielding allegiance towards North Korea and their god-like Dear Leader Kim Jong Il.

That doesn't make them good soliders. Fanaticism and equipment only go so far. Training is what makes a real army.

These aren't exactly the Iraqi Republican Army we'd be dealing with.

Probably not. The Republican Guard was the finest non-Israeli army force to come out of the Middle East in the lifetimes of anyone on this forum.

I'm still not convinced. All I see about them is numbers and equipment. With numbers and equipment, they're just the Syrians.

[Deleted User]

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[bahua]

The South Koreans could do it just fine, I'd guess. They're the Israel of Asia. Plus, they're technically still at war with the North.

[Deleted User]

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[bahua]

However, such a conflict would escalate, as the folks in the North would call upon their Chinese "brethren," and the folks in the South would call on us to aid them against the new larger force. It could be a series of triggers that end up in the largest conventional war since World War II, and possibly bigger.

[nota]

I'm no GWB fan for sure, but remember a few years back his "Axis of Evil" statement that included North Korea? I think he was correct.

[Deleted User]

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[bahua]

One thing that would keep the tactical advantage on our side would be that the Chinese have no way of closing the Pacific, so the forces on the Korean/Chinese battlefield would continue to get reinforced and resupplied.

The cost in lives would be immense, though.

[Gladstoner]

I can see China using North Korea as a military proxy, but I don't think they'd get involved directly. All their interests may be served without firing a shot themselves. Even if we knew the Chinese were involved, we'd be reluctant to do anything about it for political reasons, if not military ones. Instead, any hot action they take could involve 'inviting' Taiwan back into the family while we're busy with Lil' Kim and Co.

If a hot war does flare up, I don't see it happening until at least late 2008 or early 2009. China may want to first conclude its world showcase known as the Summer Olympics, and the U.S. will have a fledgling administration measuring for drapes in the White House. And at that time, Iran may be close to its first nuke test.