North Korea.. Celebrating the 4th?

[tat2kc]

Are you saying that Bush is going to leave yet another problem for the next administration to fixt? Surely not! 

[Gladstoner]

Are you saying that Bush is going to leave yet another problem for the next administration to fixt? Surely not! 

No. I think this one could start without any U.S. administration initiating it. Imagine that....

[skim82]

^ Exactly, South Korea could crush N Korea is if wanted to.

haha... you've got to be kidding me. North Korea's army has MILLIONS of active soilders ready to deploy at a moment's notice. 

You really think that the little over 28,000+ U.S. troops and the Korea's Republic Army could hold back possibly the largest standing army in East Asia?  Do you realize that Japan and Korea Republic's army combined would not equal 1/10th of N. Korea's army?

The US will retaliate, Bush isn't doing anything irrational and he's not making careless oral threats ( Clinton). N Korea is a blip on the map and they know it.
We could destroy them in less than a day if we wanted to. I prefer a 3 day bombing, sends a better message.

I'm sorry but wasn't it our beloved retarded-ass-backwards-i'm from texas and i'm better than you prez George W. who claimed the "Axis of Evil" speech?  Our prez had to eat his own words behind the scences after he made those comments.  We ended up sending hundreds of thousands of lbs. of food aid to N. Korea not even a month later. 

I'm sure we could inflict tremendous damage to North Korea in a heartbeat.  But, as always you should never underestimate your opponent.... especially if it by far the most isolated country in the entire world.  They don't know anything but WAR... and gearing up for war. 

3 day bombing my ass... It is believed that N. Korea could reach the West Coast of the US with one of it's missles... I hope not, but who knows for sure... in fact who knows anything about N. Korea really?  It's the most secrective country in modern history.

[KCMax]

I get the feeling that North Korea's testing is the equivalent of a kid throwing a temper tantrum. "Look at me! Aren't I important?"

South Korea doesn't seem too alarmed, and they're the ones with the most to lose here.

[bahua]

Skim, you're definitely wrong. North Korea has just over a million standing troops, not millions. They can activate many more, but so can South Korea, and much better-trained troops, at that. In a one-on-one, South Korea could roundly defeat and conquer North Korea. Problem is, such a conflict will never happen. If it ever does happen, it will involve many more countries than Korea.

[skim82]

Listen, the Korean Republics army will not stand an invasion from No. Korea, period.  No matter how much you would like to believe. 

I am Korean, I watch all the Korean news channels. MBC, SBS, YTN, KBS, and trust me, if you can get me a number of how small Korea Republic's army is, then you'll see my point.

South Korean males are mandated by the Gov. to enlist in the army (armed services) for almost 2 years.  So, figure the entire male population ages 21-24 for 2 years, and that's the number of soilders they have to deploy. Not much.

I'm not trying to deny that many more countries would be involved, but when guys like Michael come on here and deny that there is any "threat" from N. Korea, it makes me wonder how ignorant many people are about N. Korea.

There's no reason for many on this forum to understand the situation on the Korean Peninsula, but having been born there, and having visited many times, with friends and family still there, There is a possibilty that I have a better grasp of reality over there.

[BVC]

I agree with Tat.  They and the Iranians took advantage of our stupidity by seizing the opportunity to develop their nuclear arsenals while we were too occupied to really do anything about it.  I seriously doubt that we would have done anything anyways since the Chinese and the Russians have been somewhat wishy washy on their stance over North Korea's program.  They claim they don't like it but they don't even support sanctioning North Korea so that's something to be leery about.  That's one can of worms that the boys in Washington would not want to open. If we were to take military action and China and Russia didn't agree with it and were to back North Korea then we'd have probably bitten off a whole lot more than we could chew.

Funny that Iran and N Korea accelerated and perfected their build-ups in the "peaceful" 1990's...


If we strike N Korea, it would have to be because they fired a missile that was clearly headed to the United States or fired one that struck Japan.  Taking pre-emptive action against them would only give "I'm so ronery" Kim Jung Il the ability to paint us as aggressors.  We have to go back to the "do not fire until fired upon" mindset again and I think even Bush is figuring that one out.

[Deleted User]

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[kard]

Lets just bomb everybody now so we don't have to worry about this crap.  I mean, we obviously could cause we're like, the shit.

I'm going to go hug a tree.

[tat2kc]

The only reason we haven't gone into N Korea and Iran is that we could not do it in 3 days. Or 3 years.  Bush picked Iraq because he's a bully and it was an easy target, and his wonderful PR machine was able to tie it the the 9-11 attacks.  Even if we weren't in Iraq and Afghanistan, we still wouldn't go after N. Korea or Iran.  The Korean War was never "settled". Thats why we're still there. We cannot begin to even ramp up for any kind of significant confict in that part of the world.  N. Korea and Iran know full well that there is nothing at all we can to stop their weapons development at this time, or for the next several years.  And NO, nukes are not an option even for the U.S.  You think we are hated now in the world? What kind of standing would we have if we launched a first strke against anyone? 

No way in hell would China accept the U.S. invading and conquering N. Korea.  The economic impact of a war on the Korean peninsula would be even greater than the Iraq conquest.  Think about how much of the goods the U.S. imports are manufactured in Asia.  Throw a nice regional war into the mix and the cost of those goods, at least the ones we could still get, would skyrocket. 

[phxcat]

Comparing an invasion of NK to the Iraq invasion is stupid.  3 days?  Thats ridiculous.  Iraq was coming off an incredibly bloody 8 year war with Iran, who they couldn't beat for all of their military might, then three years later (hardly enough time to get the military back in order) were at it again against us.  They spent the next twelve years under sanctions.  Iraq is also a mostly flat, deforested country where the best defense is the stronger military.  Then the war planning during the initial war in 2003 seems to have been to pull back and to get into a guerilla war, so over a what, three week invasion?

Invading either NK or Iran would have been a hell of a lot harder than invading Iraq before 2003, with over 100,000 of our troops occupied over there now, forget about it.

[leaf]

US:

+ excellent at toppling dictators and using surgical strikes to bring countries to their knees.

+ terrible at nation-building, occupation, and international relations

[BVC]

Guys, remember Gulf War I, the SCUD missile things, you know, the ones that are less accurate than a box of Saturn Missile fireworks?  That is the technology that N Korea keeps trying to perfect.  It would take an absolute freak luck incident for them to currently reach our shores.  Japan is rightfully the most worried b/c even the SCUD tech N Korea employs could somehow get a missile to land there.

[KCMax]

Funny that Iran and N Korea accelerated and perfected their build-ups in the "peaceful" 1990's...

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard on the news North Korea has quadrupled their arsenal since 2002. I have no idea about Iran.

[BVC]

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard on the news North Korea has quadrupled their arsenal since 2002. I have no idea about Iran.

I meant the nuclear programs of these highly respectful countries...  N Korea breaking the 1994 agreement went relatively unpunished, I mean, what could economic sanctions do to people already starving?  Iran, to have enriching capabilities today would mean that their program accelerated during the 1990's.  I guess my real point was that while the 1990's seemed relatively peaceful at the time, we had folks like Iran, Osama, and Kim Jong Il out there doing their thing without being dealt with.

[bahua]

Equipment and numbers *do* *not* make a powerful army. Compared to a well-trained army(like S Korea), being well-equipped(with Chinese Tanks and dilapidated Soviet infantry weapons) doesn't help. It just gives your well-trained enemies more targets.

[Thrillcekr]

That doesn't make them good soliders. Fanaticism and equipment only go so far. Training is what makes a real army.

That's true and that applies to us as well.  We got our asses kicked by a bunch of farmers in southeast asia in spite of being light years ahead of them technologically because we were fighting people that had been fighting for years.  Too bad it doesn't appear that we learned much from it.

[skim82]

Equipment and numbers *do* *not* make a powerful army. Compared to a well-trained army(like S Korea), being well-equipped(with Chinese Tanks and dilapidated Soviet infantry weapons) doesn't help. It just gives your well-trained enemies more targets.

sorry bahua but i'm gonna have to disagree with you there... we lost the Vietnam War, not because we were "superior" and well-trained.  Also, look at the shit we're in right now... you think the 'soilders' we're fighting over there are better trained that our Marines?

Comparing an invasion of NK to the Iraq invasion is stupid.  3 days?  Thats ridiculous. 

The only reason we haven't gone into N Korea and Iran is that we could not do it in 3 days. Or 3 years. 

Agreed, I think there are a few people here that "underestimate" other countries motives and strengths.  I'm sorry, but we are not unbeatable, and for retards like Michael to insist that N. Korea could be defeated in 3 days is pure arrogance. 

We currently have a little over 28,000 US troops stationed in South Korea.  That's all.  If an invasion were to happen tomorrow.... just ONE missle into the heart of Seoul/Incheon would send the entire country into CHAOS.  Imagine 13+ million people scurrying south for shelter.  It would be no contest.

N. Korea trains its soilders very well, many N. Korean soilders have been caught by the S. Korean Coast Guard on recon missions with incredibly sophisticated equipment. 

All I'm saying is, don't believe arroagant people we should be well aware of the threat that nations like Iran and N. Korea could have not only for our country, but our planet. 

Your kind of showing your ignorance here... China has millions of active soldiers. 
It's the largest standing army in the world.

That's eactly why they need to be checked. The last thing they need is nuclear capabilities.
We could crush them in 3 days.

You're silly, if that was the case we would have allready intervened.

I said they will be delt with. When did I say they aren't a threat?
Do you even bother reading posts before commenting?

No shit China has millions of soilders... but let's see, would China have our backs?  Or the backs of N. Korea who it has had an alliance with since the Cho Sun Dynasty? 

Do you really post things with the thought that people are just going to believe your ramblings?  They're gonna be dealt with?  What are you gonna go over there and "deal" with them in 3 days? 

[bahua]

sorry bahua but i'm gonna have to disagree with you there... we lost the Vietnam War, not because we were "superior" and well-trained.  Also, look at the shit we're in right now... you think the 'soilders' we're fighting over there are better trained that our Marines?

The occupation of Iraq and a conventional war between North and South Korea are not comparable. Such a war would be a modern conflict, not a guerilla struggle between upstart ragtag armies.

Also, a point that most seem to miss about Vietnam is that the US wasn't defeated. The US failed to meet its objectives, gave up, and left. It certainly was a disgrace, both politically and tactically, but the US was not defeated by the North Vietnamese army, such as there was. One might say that the US was thwarted by the nonconventional guerilla tactics of the Vietcong, but against such a disorganized force, there can be no victory. The fractured nature of such a force rules conquest out.

Regardless, a conflict between North and South Korea would not be like that. They are modern countries, with literate, educated populations, unlike Vietnam and Iraq. But until someone gives me some kind of proof attesting to the training prowess of the North Korean Army, I can't help thinking they'd just be unwittingly running into combined-arms fire, and cut to pieces, without the help of the Chinese.

[phxcat]

I really don;t think that China would want to get into a war against us, for economic reasons more than military, but they wouldn't help us either.  Where does this idea come from that the North Korean army is not disciplined and well trained? 

The North Vietnamese were not trying to take over the US, they were trying to take over Vietnam, and in that they did a pretty good job.  Granted, it was the VC that did most of the damage, but losing a war doesn;t mean that foreign soldiers have to march through the streets of DC.  It means that we sent troops with an objective, and we failed.