KCRag Forum

He just laid down a 10 minute commentary on why KC should not settle for a band aid fix to Kauffman and why the Royals should build a dt stadium.

That dude is passionate.  Finally, someone from KC that has experience much on the national scene that actually "gets it".

awesome... anyone who truly knows this city and doesn't have some political, monetary or sentimental ties to Kaufmann would agree. Why spend a billion JUST to have what we had in 1970?

The world, the games, the economy and entertainment ...everything has changed since then.

I heard it too. Simply put, Kevin Harlan is the man. Guy basically knows every city/stadium/arena intimately and is solid that we could do a lot better than the fear mongering* bs that is being presented.  This guy loves KC and is a better reference than all of us on this board, cuz he lives it.

*my description, not his

StL_Dan wrote: He just laid down a 10 minute commentary on why KC should not settle for a band aid fix to Kauffman and why the Royals should build a dt stadium.

That dude is passionate.  Finally, someone from KC that has experience much on the national scene that actually "gets it".

i heard it too, and harlan at first was like "well, if the people pass this tuesday, it is in the best intrest of the county, and i am just so happy to see a plan going forward"

intresting how you no people didn't mention that part of his speech. what a shock.

kcdcchef wrote: i heard it too, and harlan at first was like "well, if the people pass this tuesday, it is in the best intrest of the county, and i am just so happy to see a plan going forward"

intresting how you no people didn't mention that part of his speech. what a shock.

disclaimer:  i did not hear this myself, i'm making an assumption

interesting how you ignore the rest of the "speech" as well.

shaffe wrote: disclaimer:  i did not hear this myself, i'm making an assumption

interesting how you ignore the rest of the "speech" as well.

not at all. i heard him talking about stadiums being downtown where they belong with all the activity, but, again, these other stadiums were not nice ones like ours are. kc got completely decimated by white flight, either dangerboy or tat, one of them mentioned that the other day, and that is why these stadiums ended up out there where they did not belong. but, what is done, is done, they are out there, and they are great. tough shit, move on.

tough shit?  move on?  Don't right a wrong?  Man.  Move back home to JoCo the burbs already.  Sheesh.

kcdcchef wrote: not at all. i heard him talking about stadiums being downtown where they belong with all the activity, but, again, these other stadiums were not nice ones like ours are. kc got completely decimated by white flight, either dangerboy or tat, one of them mentioned that the other day, and that is why these stadiums ended up out there where they did not belong. but, what is done, is done, they are out there, and they are great. tough shit, move on.

kcdcchef wrote: these other stadiums were not nice ones like ours are.

Detroit. Kauffman will NEVER have the history and character that Tiger Stadium did. Detroit built a new ballpark & got the 2005 All-Star game, and built a new football stadium (Silverdome sucks compared to Arrowhead, but I'd say Ford Field is better and has set the new standard) which brought the 2006 Super Bowl and the 2009 Final Four.

Comerica Park - Public financing: $115 million, or 38 percent, from 2 percent rental-car tax and 1 percent hotel tax, and money from Indian casino revenue.
                          Private financing: $185 million, or 62 percent, from Tigers owner Mike Ilitch
                          Total: $300 million

Ford Field - Public financing: $125 million, or 30 percent.
                   Private financing: $295 million, or 70 percent.
                   Total: $420 million

Total Cost of Detroits 2 new stadiums: $720 million
Private Financing of Detroits 2 new stadiums: $480 million or 67 percent
Public Financing of Detroits 2 new stadiums: $240 million or 33 percent.

Total Cost of TSC Renovation with Roof: $1.2 billion
Private Financing of TSC Renovation with Roof: $100 million or 8 pecent
Public Financing of TSC Renovation with Roof: $1.1 billion or 92 percent

The point of this is that this shit can be done in a MUCH better and more efficient way. KC can still get the Final Four and all those events, just like Detroit did, even if the votes on Tuesday fail.

Sources
http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/detbpk.htm
http://www.vikings.com/stadiumlandscape ... mples.html
http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansa ... ily39.html

^^^
You forgot to include the interest costs in the $240M amount so the cost will be higher than the $720, if you want to compare apples to apples.

And don't compare costs of new from years ago to cost this area would face years from now if the KC area was to build new.

We have already committed a higher car rental tax and a higher hotel tax to Sprint Arena.  Way to go KC.  These taxes could have gotten us a new stadium instead.

Burton wrote: Detroit. Kauffman will NEVER have the history and character that Tiger Stadium did. 

yeah, but it was what, 80 years old in the end? kauffman will be that nice in 2056, when, the royals are still there, dont worry!!

aknowledgeableperson wrote: ^^^
You forgot to include the interest costs in the $240M amount so the cost will be higher than the $720, if you want to compare apples to apples.

If you can find out the total cost including interest, let me know and I'll change my original post. I just took the numbers from the sources I listed.  Is there enough interest there to eclipse $1.2 billion though?

aknowledgeableperson wrote: And don't compare costs of new from years ago to cost this area would face years from now if the KC area was to build new.

Showing one example the cost of building two stadiums in a downtown, with the public/private cost percentages, compared with the cost of RENOVATING two old stadiums is this comparison I was making. Not new vs. new.

kcdcchef wrote: kauffman will be that nice in 2056, when, the royals are still there, dont worry!!

aknowledgeableperson wrote: ^^^
You forgot to include the interest costs in the $240M amount so the cost will be higher than the $720, if you want to compare apples to apples.

And don't compare costs of new from years ago to cost this area would face years from now if the KC area was to build new.

We have already committed a higher car rental tax and a higher hotel tax to Sprint Arena.  Way to go KC.  These taxes could have gotten us a new stadium instead.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am happy someone finally busted this bullshit.

Burton wrote:

Total Cost of Detroits 2 new stadiums: $720 million


Total Cost of TSC Renovation with Roof: $1.2 billion

okay, i am tired of this fucken shit. if 450m + 170m = 1.2b, which, i do not agree it does, then, detroit, which, put in 720m, some private, some public, but, A 25 year bonded project just like ours, then, 720m over the life of that, would NOT BE 720m, it would be 1.6b, using the same formula you use here. so, BULLSHIT.

not to mention, their stadiums have been done a few years and cost 720m, we have not even thought of them here. if this fails tuesday, and the next tsc ballot proposal fails ( they will go to a tsc proposal again, count on it ) and we finally approve new stadiums in 2007 or 2008, construction does not even start until 2010, at earliest.

you think 2 new stadiums in 2010 will cost 720m? which, is really, according to you no people, 1.6b?? shit no, it wil be like 1b without the added intrest and inflation, you people seem so big on.

funny thing akp, if it comes to that, in 2010 or whatever, you will ONLY hear that it will cost 900m for 2 new stadiums. ONLY 900m.

kcdcchef wrote: THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am happy someone finally busted this bullshit.

So now interest matters?  It doesn't matter when we're talking about the proposal on the ballot, but it does matter if we're talking about a new stadium?

kcdcchef wrote: okay, i am tired of this fucken shit. if 450m + 170m = 1.2b, which, i do not agree it does...

I figured you wouldn't, which is why I posted the link to the KC Business journal page.
http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansa ... ily39.html

Burton wrote: I figured you wouldn't, which is why I posted the link to the KC Business journal page.
http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansa ... ily39.html

sorry, there have been 2 other links on here that say 1.05b, 1.1b, and now this. it changes daily, i do not buy it.

by the way burton, why did both of detroits stadiums, both 25 year bonds / 25 year loans, cost 720m, how come you don't do this bullshit where you say how much "it will really cost over 25 years"

why are you no voters so afraid to show how much other cities really spend too? why only with the question 1 & 2 math do you do that??

Because I added up the costs from the sources I listed. I didn't see anything about them costing 1.6 billion anywhere. If you got a link, I'd be glad to change the original post.

Burton wrote: Because I added up the costs from the sources I listed. I didn't see anything about them costing 1.6 billion anywhere. If you got a link, I'd be glad to change the original post.

dude, everyones crazy. don't sweat it. thanks for the post.

OMG....we will have to pay INTEREST???  and, where would we all park???? 

Dowtown stadium = big, expensive and inconvenient mistake. 

Kard wrote: tough shit?  move on?  Don't right a wrong?  Man.  Move back home to JoCo already.  Sheesh.

EZ....I live in JoCo.