Fixing the KC Zoo (ongoing)

[Highlander]

What are everybody's thoughts on the tax?  How does this thing need to be marketed to pass? 

I support it.  Not sure if it will pass or not.  I can imagine that anybody with children would lean toward voting yes.  For others, perhaps a discounted ticket guarantee for Jackson, Platte, Cass, and Clay Co. residents?  May ease the heartburn some will feel over JoCo residents not contributing to the cause. 

May also be wise to let peopl know what Omaha's, STL's annual budgets are so that people will have a visual point of reference for what this tax measure will mean. 

Question - what does the following mean?   

"If the tax district is approved in all jurisdictions ? it would have to pass in Jackson County, at least, to take effect ? the measure could generate $17.6 million a year."

So, if the measure only passes it Jackson, it will move forward?  But if it passes everywhere but Jackson, it fails?   

While it's a welcome initiative, it might be better if we did this with a more broad and encompassing cultural tax that would support a few more venues such as the Liberty Memorial.  It gets a bit messy having a separate tax for every cultural venue. 

With respect to passing, the comments in the Star were overwhelmingly negative but the people who commented were pretty ignorant of the issues (e.g., school funding red herrings, Swope Park being dangerous, etc..).  Actually, I see this doing pretty well in Johnson County, possibly Jackson County but would worry about Clay and Platte passing.  Wyandotte County is a lost cause on all civic issues, it just isn't going to pass there.  I certainly like the idea, it's a long time coming and something the new mayor could help sell, or even expand, into a true multi-county cultural tax. 

[KC-wildcat]

I see this doing pretty well in Johnson County, possibly Jackson County but would worry about Clay and Platte passing.  Wyandotte County is a lost cause on all civic issues, it just isn't going to pass there. 

Johnson and Wyandotte aren't included on the measure.  It's not bi-state. 

Jackson, Platte, Cass, Clay. 

[cityscape]

We went to the zoo yesterday and I was pleasantly surprised to see so many people.  It was almost to the point of being crowded.  We also saw all of the restaurants/food kiosks fairly busy as well.  I guess I'm wondering with so many of the big improvements recently, is this tax necessary?  I hear that numbers at the zoo continue to rise as more and more people come to enjoy the attractions.  The sky lift was full the entire time we were in Africa ($4) per person.  So I guess I'm wondering why all of a sudden they now want a larger tax for more income?  I would guess that in order to get this approved they're going to have to promise more attractions and probably list them individually (not including the penguins which is close to being privately funded).  Thoughts?

[Highlander]

Johnson and Wyandotte aren't included on the measure.  It's not bi-state. 

Jackson, Platte, Cass, Clay. 

Sorry.  I would be reticent about any multi-county cultural tax that was not bistate.  I know it is politically difficult but the zoo has a very large following in Johnson County in terms of support and that large tax base really needs to be included and JoCo residents need to be paying for those cultural venues they frequent just like the rest of the metro.  All this really adds over what current KC support is Independence, Raytown, Lees Summit and Blue Springs residents and those are not necassarily the most civic minded folks in the metro.  They will indeed support football and baseball venues, but I doubt they will have a lot of passion for a better zoo.    

[GRID]

We went to the zoo yesterday and I was pleasantly surprised to see so many people.  It was almost to the point of being crowded.  We also saw all of the restaurants/food kiosks fairly busy as well.  I guess I'm wondering with so many of the big improvements recently, is this tax necessary?  I hear that numbers at the zoo continue to rise as more and more people come to enjoy the attractions.  The sky lift was full the entire time we were in Africa ($4) per person.  So I guess I'm wondering why all of a sudden they now want a larger tax for more income?  I would guess that in order to get this approved they're going to have to promise more attractions and probably list them individually (not including the penguins which is close to being privately funded).  Thoughts?

Why would people in Lee's Summit or Independence or Raytown be any less "civic minded" than those in Overland Park, Lenexa and Olathe???

I'll give you Prarie Village and northern Leawood might be a bit more so, but one of the most anti kcmo places in metro KC is Olathe and that is over 1/4 the population of JoCo.

Having said that, I'm sure JoCo as a whole would vote for a zoo tax, if given a chance.  The problem is that chance is not likely to ever be given.

Jackson County would pass it too.  The problems with Jackson is not that they don't have as much civic pride, as much as they are already taxed for regional stuff and they get tired of bearing the full burden.  That's why JaCo passes things far more easily when it's a multi county tax vs a jackson county only tax and don't forget that much of KCMO is in jackson county and the parts of KCMO east of 435 are probably more anti tax than the outer suburbs for issues like this.

Clay and Platte are also slammed with taxes because most of those residents are also in KCMO.  They pay into taxes for the museums, the truman medical center, the ATA, the Etax general fund etc.  They get double and triple and dipped by the city of kcmo, the counties and the state for regional assets, even though they are in suburban areas and they too are more likely to pass something if it's a more regional effort. (joco helps out too).  Yet kcmo residents of both counties have passed past short term zoo taxes quite easily and I'm sure Liberty, Gladstone, NKC etc would do the same.

JoCo is NOT going to help out though and I think that most people realize that and understand that it's either get the MO side together and do something or do nothing at all and let the zoo continue to be underfunded.

The KC zoo is not a bad zoo at all, I can see it becoming a great zoo with this funding in place (along with free and or reduced tickets for MO residents to boost attendence and other revenue).  But it needs funding.  The FOTZ and the ticket revenue is not enough to get it done.  Omaha does it via private dononations, but the zoo is Omaha's pride and joy attraction so it can be a focal point of regional donations.  KC is too big and diverse for that, so it needs public funds, like what St Louis has.

[GRID]

Oh, and I no longer post or even read the KC star online because it has become a terrible paper and the comments are some of the worst online. (I read the Baltimore and DC papers online regularly and the comments rarely approach the stupidity of any random kc article).  If it doesn't come across the KC Biz Journal, I guess I wait for somebody to post it here.

But I have figured out that almost all of the negative comments regarding KC are from a handful of JoCo trolls including articles like this that have nothing to do with kansas.  They sound like they are voters and will vote no for it, but they don't even live in MO 90% of the time.  They will even claim to be from Lee's Summit or Raytown, but if you get into a debate with them, they won't know any true details of the cities that they should know if they lived there.

Even though JaCo has its fair share of city haters, most people out in Raytown and Lee's Summit etc have historic ties to places like Swope Park (grew up in kcmo, have family there, are more likely to work there etc) and are less likely to rip on it than joe blow from olathe.

[Highlander]

Why would people in Lee's Summit or Independence or Raytown be any less "civic minded" than those in Overland Park, Lenexa and Olathe???

I'll give you Prarie Village and northern Leawood might be a bit more so, but one of the most anti kcmo places in metro KC is Olathe and that is over 1/4 the population of JoCo.

Having said that, I'm sure JoCo as a whole would vote for a zoo tax, if given a chance.  The problem is that chance is not likely to ever be given.

Eastern Jackson County....it's not that it's anti KCMO, it's just that the people who live there tend to be more working class and more of the tea party/anti tax crowd.  Given the current economic situation, any new tax won't sit well in those areas.  In any event, metro St Louis incorporates their more prosperous areas in their cultural tax, why would KC want to produce a facsimile of that tax and leave out the most prosperous county in the metro?  I think it would pass in JoCo and I think it's worth investigating the possibilities of making such tax entity more broad.  Wyandotte County...never, but JoCo as a whole is not as anti-KC as you think.       

[GRID]

Eastern Jackson County....it's not that it's anti KCMO, it's just that the people who live there tend to be more working class and more of the tea party/anti tax crowd.  Given the current economic situation, any new tax won't sit well in those areas.  In any event, metro St Louis incorporates their more prosperous areas in their cultural tax, why would KC want to produce a facsimile of that tax and leave out the most prosperous county in the metro?  I think it would pass in JoCo and I think it's worth investigating the possibilities of making such tax entity more broad.  Wyandotte County...never, but JoCo as a whole is not as anti-KC as you think.        

Oh, I agree with you.  I don't think JoCO is anti kcmo.  I think it generally gets a bad rap from a vocal minority and terrible elected leadership at city, county and state levels when it comes to metropolitan cooperation.

JoCo would easisly pass a zoo tax and would probably pass a regional more comprehensive cultural tax as well.  The problem is the general public will probably never be given such an opportunity.

My point is that Blue Springs and Lee's Summit are to JaCo as Olathe and western Shawnee and Lenexa are to JoCo.  More dis-interested and even anti central city than the rest of the county.

So if you are going to put JaCo on the spot and say JoCo will pass such an issue, I would say that JoCo would face similar problems.  JoC has what 575,000 people?  Most of those people don't live in Fairway or Prarie Village.

But it is completely asinine that the second largest county in the metropolitan area (possibly even equal to jaco economically) is not even included in basic conversations in anything like this anymore.  It's as if the 600-900,000 KS side residents are 2000 miles away when it comes to regional issues and it really shows just has fragmented KC really is and how far it has to go.

[aknowledgeableperson]

What are everybody's thoughts on the tax?  How does this thing need to be marketed to pass? 

The biggest question many would have is "what are the plans for the additional money?" Much like for the Bi-state tax for US a committee should be established composed of members appointed by the counties that approved the tax to approve the way the funds are spent.

[mean]

JoCo would easisly pass a zoo tax and would probably pass a regional more comprehensive cultural tax as well.  The problem is the general public will probably never be given such an opportunity.

I tend to agree, but I would be interested in hearing opinions on how this political attitude might be swayed.

[Highlander]

I tend to agree, but I would be interested in hearing opinions on how this political attitude might be swayed.

IMO, what has changed is KC's mayoral situation.  Funk was not much at creating consensus in KC alone let alone the metro and he clearly had no vision of the city other than improvement of basic services.  I was hoping that Sly James's excitement about KC might be the first step in a period of cooperation, at least for cultural issues (KS will always be sniping KC business), that might bring a bi-state effort to support KC's institutions and improve some of them (e.g., the zoo) to regional or national attractions.  Funk just had no interest.

[GRID]

IMO, what has changed is KC's mayoral situation.  Funk was not much at creating consensus in KC alone let alone the metro and he clearly had no vision of the city other than improvement of basic services.  I was hoping that Sly James's excitement about KC might be the first step in a period of cooperation, at least for cultural issues (KS will always be sniping KC business), that might bring a bi-state effort to support KC's institutions and improve some of them (e.g., the zoo) to regional or national attractions.   Funk just had no interest.

I don't know about that.  Barnes and Cleaver were pretty vocal about regional bistate cooperation and were met with some pretty fierce political backlash by even brainstorming on ideas.  Leaders out in Lenexa and Olathe were running off to Topeka to try to pass laws banning any bistate taxes for any reason before anything could even gain traction and they had plenty of support at the voting level even if the county as a whole would probably support such issues.  I don't think you realize how anti bistate (kcmo, missouri etc) some parts of JoCo are.  Southern Blue Valley, Olathe, western JoCo etc can all be extremely un-cooperative and Topeka tends to side with that crowd rather than the NE JoCo crowd.

Now after several years of this aggressive business poaching, I think Kansas has only burned bridges and created so much resentment that few even want go there and even attempt to initiate cooperation at a regional level.  

Kansas has become KCMO's biggest enemy and the last thing you will see Sly do is come across as begging for money from kansas.  I see him doing something a bit more "In your face" like charging KS residents more for anything that is subsidized by kcmo.  That may not be possible, but that is something more in line with what he would do and that is where KC is at now.  KC is way past asking for KS to cooperate.  You can see that with the transit issues.

[cityscape]

What I did notice at the zoo yesterday was that at least 75% of the fellow zoo goers were definitely from the suburbs and I was very surprised at the zip codes being tossed out while waiting to purchase my FOTZ annual membership.  Out of the 15 or so people in front of me, half were zip codes NOT in the KC metro area.  

So to say that some of the suburbs in this metro wouldn't support a zoo tax may be a bit presumptuous.

[mean]

I don't know about that.  Barnes and Cleaver were pretty vocal about regional bistate cooperation and were met with some pretty fierce political backlash by even brainstorming on ideas.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Bi-State II got crushed pretty hard, although I think that was largely because Jackson County wouldn't let JoCo have representation on the Sports Authority board. Maybe they'd be more amenable to something now, something where they get representation. I don't know. I guess it'd be worth a shot.

[KC-wildcat]

I see him doing something a bit more "In your face" like charging KS residents more for anything that is subsidized by kcmo.  That may not be possible, but that is something more in line with what he would do and that is where KC is at now.  

I think there should be a disparity in ticket prices depending on where you live.  It doesn't need to be "in your face" though.  Instead of punishing KS we should be focused on rewarding MO.  Tix cost about $12 right now?  Boost tix across the board (marginally so as to not scare off customers) and guarantee MO residents living in the tax district a 50% ticket reduction for the life of the tax. 

I think this approach is reasonable and non-controversial.  I understand that Florida residents get discounts for various theme parks that are funded by tax dollars??  Seems valid to me. 

[pstokely]

What I did notice at the zoo yesterday was that at least 75% of the fellow zoo goers were definitely from the suburbs and I was very surprised at the zip codes being tossed out while waiting to purchase my FOTZ annual membership.  Out of the 15 or so people in front of me, half were zip codes NOT in the KC metro area.  

So to say that some of the suburbs in this metro wouldn't support a zoo tax may be a bit presumptuous.

They could just charge people outside of Clay, Cass, Platte, and Jackson more

[aknowledgeableperson]

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Bi-State II got crushed pretty hard, although I think that was largely because Jackson County wouldn't let JoCo have representation on the Sports Authority board. Maybe they'd be more amenable to something now, something where they get representation. I don't know. I guess it'd be worth a shot.

The Jackson County Sports Authority is appointed by the governor with noms by the county.  Guess the county could nominate but certtain there is a requirement that the noms be residents of JaCo.

[mean]

The Jackson County Sports Authority is appointed by the governor with noms by the county.  Guess the county could nominate but certtain there is a requirement that the noms be residents of JaCo.

I'm sure there is, and if they had been serious about playing ball with JoCo, they'd  have worked to get that changed.

[DaveKCMO]

i would support this if admission became free and it was part of a larger, bi-state cultural tax.

[grovester]

i would support this if admission became free and it was part of a larger, bi-state cultural tax.

If it works for the zoo, we could try it with light rail.