Hey! Lets start another thread bitching about the NEW stadium idea!

[KCDevin]

Do not assume that I don't want a Downtown ballpark. I do want one, however it isn't realistic at the moment.

Kauffman is still a decent stadium, it isn't located in the best spot, but who cares? In 20 more years, they will want to get rid of Kauffman. The Downtown Stadium will happen (Hopefully). But right now, they want to keep Kauffman, building new isn't always the best idea. In 20 years, hopefully the Royals will have turned around and started winning for once. Maybe we will catch onto baseball and start pulling in crowds of 20,000? However, the Downtown ballpark isn't going to happen anytime in the near future. Repeatedly voting down TSC renovations is NOT going to remedy the problem of keeping Kauffman. It's going to hurt us and will encourage the Royals, as well as the Chiefs, to move.

[KCMax]

By early 1984, team owner Robert Irsay threatened to move the team unless Baltimore city officials helped pay for a new stadium and other concessions. Despite numerous public announcements that he would not move the Colts out of Baltimore, and the Maryland legislature threatening to give the city of Baltimore the right to seize the team by eminent domain, Irsay secretly negotiated with Indianapolis to move the team. The Indiana capital agreed to give the team a $12.5 million loan, a $4 million training complex, and the use of the Hoosier Dome 1. After signing the agreement, Mayflower Transit trucks rolled into the team's training complex in the wee hours of March 28. Workers then packed and shipped the team's offices and equipment to Indianapolis.

And now Baltimore has a team that won the Super Bowl.

[BVC]

are you serious? The Chiefs moving to Kansas would be worse for Downtown than if the Royals never moved there. No, Johnson County doesn't deserve jack! What they really deserve is a kick in the backside and to have Sprint-Nextel, as well as every other company move away from JoCo to Downtown.

You miss the point young man...  Light rail is more critical to the core of the city than the Chiefs staying at the TSC.  The tax burden that KCMO and JaxCo residents are being asked to bear is becoming too great.  Either you pass a shoddy rennovation plan or you build light rail, both will not happen unfortunately.  

A Downtown Stadium is #1, not realistic atm. Number 2, the Downtown Stadium will never ever have the impact it had in any of the other cities, especially St. Louis. You won't have 40 floor residential towers being erected around the stadium in Downtown. People here just are not that crazy about baseball... However, if you moved the Chiefs to the Riverfront, that would really encourage people to go and move Downtown.

Actually, think about what you're saying about downtown baseball being ineffective or at least not as effective in KC.  KC does not have downtown baseball, St Louis did even before BuschIII.  If a downtown baseball stadium was built in KC there would be a jolt of energy and economic impact the likes of which have not been seen before.  All of the sudden, a minimum of 81 times a year, a lowball average of 18,000 fans per night would trek to downtown ready to spend there dollars at restaurants, bars, nearby hotels, etc.  This would also aid in the light rail initiative.

They'll never build a Riverfront football stadium as the soil could not handle the weight of the stadium.  It would sink like a rock to the bottom of the Mighty MO.

[BVC]

Thanks Burton, it's funny that a guy actually has to move out of the KC area to understand what might be best.  I'll certainly never hold my breath for a few of the staunch opposition to ever understand.

[kcdcchef]

are you serious? The Chiefs moving to Kansas would be worse for Downtown than if the Royals never moved there. No, Johnson County doesn't deserve jack! What they really deserve is a kick in the backside and to have Sprint-Nextel, as well as every other company move away from JoCo to Downtown.

A Downtown Stadium is #1, not realistic atm. Number 2, the Downtown Stadium will never ever have the impact it had in any of the other cities, especially St. Louis. You won't have 40 floor residential towers being erected around the stadium in Downtown. People here just are not that crazy about baseball... However, if you moved the Chiefs to the Riverfront, that would really encourage people to go and move Downtown.

The Chiefs belong in Jackson County, and the Royals belong in Jackson County, however, if the Royals leave, then so be it, but the Chiefs must stay in Jackson County at all costs.

Personally, I don't want to see this get voted down, because the Chiefs have already stated this is THE last vote for renovating Arrowhead. If you want to call their bluff, your making a big mistake, because it isn't a bluff. They will move either to Kansas, or to another county, or simply out of town.
From Wikipedia.org

Do not think the Chiefs won't do the same. Just because they have been here for a very long time doesn't mean they won't leave for greener pastures. If voters are so stubborn about a minor 3/8 cent tax, then they shouldn't even be voting. (yes I said it)

The Colts' owner said they would, the public announcements said they wouldn't... He agreed with Indianapolis secretely and moved because the city was too stupid and stubborn to pay for a new stadium...

Same exact situation here huh?
The Chiefs have threatened they will move either to another county or to another city alltogether if we don't give them these renovations. Yet everyone is saying they aren't going to move... Don't let your stubborn nature as a tax payer get in the way of keeping Kansas City's one great team here in Kansas City, MO.

well, coming from someone who was alive in 1984, and a football fan at the time no less, encyclopedias are great and all, but you really had to see the bigger picture with regards to the colts. they were the posterchild for football teams moving, and, of all the stadiums that were built for both baseball and football, baltimore's memorial stadium was one of the worst, and, really, was built more for baseball and not football, and they were getting left behind in attendance among other things, and when they asked baltimore, and maryland, about 5 times to consider the measure, to build them a new stadium, well, it just never even got considered.

then, from there, the famous televised images of moving trucks, moving the team, actually, in the middle of the night while the city of baltimore slept, it was really ugly the way they moved.

if our beloved chiefs move due to a defaulted lease, which, as of this summer they can do, technically, april 4th they could do if this fails, they could leave now due to defaulted lease if they wished, however, it would be stupid to do it a month before a vote on the  matter, but, at any rate, in a worst case scenario, a team leaving in the year 2006, would not be a 12midnight secret endeavour. it would very publicly play out right before our eyes. not that i even worry about that happening.

at least, not yet.

[BVC]

well, coming from someone who was alive in 1984, and a football fan at the time no less, encyclopedias are great and all, but you really had to see the bigger picture with regards to the colts. they were the posterchild for football teams moving, and, of all the stadiums that were built for both baseball and football, baltimore's memorial stadium was one of the worst, and, really, was built more for baseball and not football, and they were getting left behind in attendance among other things, and when they asked baltimore, and maryland, about 5 times to consider the measure, to build them a new stadium, well, it just never even got considered.

then, from there, the famous televised images of moving trucks, moving the team, actually, in the middle of the night while the city of baltimore slept, it was really ugly the way they moved.

if our beloved chiefs move due to a defaulted lease, which, as of this summer they can do, technically, april 4th they could do if this fails, they could leave now due to defaulted lease if they wished, however, it would be stupid to do it a month before a vote on the  matter, but, at any rate, in a worst case scenario, a team leaving in the year 2006, would not be a 12midnight secret endeavour. it would very publicly play out right before our eyes. not that i even worry about that happening.

at least, not yet.

When or if this vote fails, they will more than likely pull the new stadium or new metro area card...  They'll more than likely be in new digs within KC metro than in a new region if this fails.

[kcdcchef]

When or if this vote fails, they will more than likely pull the new stadium or new metro area card...  They'll more than likely be in new digs within KC metro than in a new region if this fails.

i just do not see either team leaving the tsc. not because i am a staunch supporter of the tsc, but because they are expressing zero intrest now. sure, jack "i built worlds of fun" steadman is running his mouth like the putz he is, however, based on the stance they have took, it is impossible to beleive EITHER team ever leaving the tsc, well, in the next 25-30 years anyway.

[BVC]

i just do not see either team leaving the tsc. not because i am a staunch supporter of the tsc, but because they are expressing zero intrest now. sure, jack "i built worlds of fun" steadman is running his mouth like the putz he is, however, based on the stance they have took, it is impossible to beleive EITHER team ever leaving the tsc, well, in the next 25-30 years anyway.

We'll see what happens, it's too hard to tell right now and potentially a moot point if the April vote passes but I wouldn't care if the new football stadium would be at the TSC, Speedway, Platte Co, or Olathe.  Then baseball goes downtown...  As long as the Chiefs stay in the region and we get opportunities for Super Bowls and Final Fours, I'll be happy.

[shinatoo]

I lived there for 10 years. Atlanta is the definition of sprawl and auto dependence. Spaghetti Junction makes the Grandview Triangle infantile. They've been talking for years about adding the "Outer Perimeter", which would encircle the city 40 miles outside of DT.

14 lane wide DT connector


When KC has something like this right in the middle of the core, get back to me about a KC vs. ATL car addiction debate.

edit: Please look at this 2000 study, and note where Kansas City is in relation to Atlanta.
http://www.transact.org/report.asp?id=42

Do the transportation cost include the Tax burden on each family for the public transportation in those cities (mass and highway)?

[KCDevin]

Another thing I would like to add, you have to be completely f'ed up if you want the Chiefs in Kansas.

[mean]

So there are absolutely no rational arguments in favor of the Chiefs being Kansas?

You're such a closed-minded person. So sad.

[AllThingsKC]

Another thing I would like to add, you have to be completely f'ed up if you want the Chiefs in Kansas.

I have always believe that a city should have its own teams.  By that, I mean, look at Dallas.  Neither the Rangers nor the Cowboys play within the city of Dallas.  So, Dallas loses whatever revenue that would be bring for their city.  (Not that Dallas needs more money, but Kansas City is not Dallas, and I think KCMO could use whatever revenue sports teams bring.)  I propose they refer to the Cowboys as "The Dallas Cowboys of Irvine, Texas."  If the Chiefs move to Kansas, they could call them the "Kansas City Chiefs of Johnson County" or the "Kansas City, Missouri Chiefs of Kansas City, Kansas."  (However, if they move to KCK, they would still be the "Kansas City Chiefs," but KCK is not the flagship city in this region.)  It's like having the New York Jets and the New York Giants play in New Jersey........WHAT????

Also, when you go to a city to see their sports teams, you want to be able to be IN that city.  For example, what if the St. Louis Cardinals played in St. Charles?  I think you would lose that feeling of "city unity" if the Cardinals didn't play in Downtown St. Louis.  Or at least with me, it just wouldn't be the same.  Or course, we can't a baseball stadium downtown, the next best thing (I guess) is somewhere within the KCMO city limits...which is what we have now.

[im2kull]

I have always believe that a city should have its own teams.  By that, I mean, look at Dallas.  Neither the Rangers nor the Cowboys play within the city of Dallas.  So, Dallas loses whatever revenue that would be bring for their city.  (Not that Dallas needs more money, but Kansas City is not Dallas, and I think KCMO could use whatever revenue sports teams bring.)  I propose they refer to the Cowboys as "The Dallas Cowboys of Irvine, Texas."  If the Chiefs move to Kansas, they could call them the "Kansas City Chiefs of Johnson County" or the "Kansas City, Missouri Chiefs of Kansas City, Kansas."  (However, if they move to KCK, they would still be the "Kansas City Chiefs," but KCK is not the flagship city in this region.)  It's like having the New York Jets and the New York Giants play in New Jersey........WHAT????

Also, when you go to a city to see their sports teams, you want to be able to be IN that city.  For example, what if the St. Louis Cardinals played in St. Charles?  I think you would lose that feeling of "city unity" if the Cardinals didn't play in Downtown St. Louis.  Or at least with me, it just wouldn't be the same.  Or course, we can't a baseball stadium downtown, the next best thing (I guess) is somewhere within the KCMO city limits...which is what we have now.

Or if you make it that hard, then just get KCMO to incorporate some of independence and the land TSC sits on...Then its in the city, right?

[im2kull]

Oh yeah, forgot one thing, JUST LIKE HOW SEATTLE's DT stadium sits a river away In a delapitated area of warehouses much like the bottoms...except there are actually a few business's around the stadium, but nothing new since they built it...

Apples to oranges...
Things dont always turn out as planned...

[chrizow]

Oh yeah, forgot one thing, JUST LIKE HOW SEATTLE's DT stadium sits a river away In a delapitated area of warehouses much like the bottoms...except there are actually a few business's around the stadium, but nothing new since they built it...

Apples to oranges...
Things dont always turn out as planned...

very true...but we'll never know unless we try.  we know for 100% certain that the area surrounding the TSC is a black hole.  we should at least entertain the possiblity that a downtown ballpark can give an overlooked corner of the core a boost.  if Seattle put their stadium in the equivalent of the West Bottoms, then it is no surprise that the area hasn't taken off (Kemper anyone?).  i agree that a stadium is not a guaranteed boost, but it is definitely worth trying.  besides, i'd rather have the K in a downtrodden urban core neighborhood than a downtrodden suburb surrounded by parking lots and a taco bell.

[im2kull]

very true...but we'll never know unless we try.  we know for 100% certain that the area surrounding the TSC is a black hole.  we should at least entertain the possiblity that a downtown ballpark can give an overlooked corner of the core a boost.  if Seattle put their stadium in the equivalent of the West Bottoms, then it is no surprise that the area hasn't taken off (Kemper anyone?).  i agree that a stadium is not a guaranteed boost, but it is definitely worth trying.  besides, i'd rather have the K in a downtrodden urban core neighborhood than a downtrodden suburb surrounded by parking lots and a taco bell.

Perhaps,
But, If the area is such a black hole, then why doesnt somebody step out and try development around it?  Should they not risk it, I mean, if a DT stadium would also be a big risk...whats the difference?  Try telling me a chiefs/royals merchandise store couldn't fare well next to TSC, or a meat house.  Kemper doesnt have any large events, minus the AFL, seattle plays games there on 100 or so days of the year, so yes, it is surprising that nothing has take off their, but not surprising that kemper is still a dead area....apples to oranges...

Now, for everyone else...
"That would put the public's cost for a Marlins stadium at $232.5 million, and that's assuming San Antonio could really get a stadium built for the rock-bottom price of $300 million, which no city has managed to do since Pittsburgh's PNC Park in 2001. "
A DT stadium would clearly cost much more than 300 million...checkmark

"the city's own figures estimate $574 million to renovate Yankee Stadium, including providing upgrades demanded by the team, versus at least $800 million for a new stadium - $1.2 billion counting the costs of new parking garages and replacement parkland.

I rest my case on the ^

[shinatoo]

Construction on public project between MO and KS vary by 30-40% mainly due to pervailing wage. Texas and Washington are both right to work states as is Kansas. Mo is not, NewYork is worse. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison between these states.

[im2kull]

Construction on public project between MO and KS vary by 30-40% mainly due to pervailing wage. Texas and Washington are both right to work states as is Kansas. Mo is not, NewYork is worse. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison between these states.

Good point, but my main point is just that a single stadium cannot be built for below probably a good 400+ million anymore...

[kcdcchef]

Good point, but my main point is just that a single stadium cannot be built for below probably a good 400+ million anymore...

well, from what i read in the post-dispatch online, the st louis stadium is pushing 400m now.

[shaffe]

and who says that every penny of a new stadium will come from the taxpayers.  the reason this question should be voted down more than the possibility of a downtown park is the 10% controbution by the teams.  one of the worst deals in sports history if this question passes.